4 ms·

Does this "waste" accumulate indefinitely if you are constantly lacking sleep, or does it get flushed out in full every night you get a good night's sleep? So s

by sak5sk 7y ago

Does this "waste" accumulate indefinitely if you are constantly lacking sleep, or does it get flushed out in full every night you get a good night's sleep? So say I had a crappy sleep schedule for 3 days, but on the 4th day I slept a lot and feel very rested. Did the last night's cleaning take care of all the accumulated waste?

rexpop 7y ago
I imagine there are second-order effects of sustained e.g. amyloid saturation.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
DoreenMichele 7y ago
Articles and studies I've seen suggest that it takes more than one night to get caught up and that some things become seriously intractable if you are routinely short of sleep.
- radium3d 7y ago
  That's interesting, I wonder if this harvard study on "catching up on sleep" accidentally shows in some way how much sleep is required to flush out the toxins? They stated, "10-hour sleep opportunities consistently restored vigilance task performance during the first several hours of wakefulness." https://stm.sciencemag.org/content/2/14/14ra3.abstract https://stm.sciencemag.org/content/2/14/14ra3.abstract
  - DoreenMichele 7y ago
    I looked at the link. They actually were also having people stay up longer, so I don't think you can conclude that. The brain also "resets" during sleep. As part of that process, it shrinks substantially. Aa you do stuff during the day, synapses swell as they see repetitive use of the same pathways. This reinforces those ideas or actions, crowding out other things. In order to restore short term memory formation and the ability to learn new things, your brain has to reset at night. There's also interesting research on two proteins, amyloid and tau, that accumulate faster when people are sleep deprived. They are both associated with Alzheimer's. One of them rapidly resolves when you get caught up on sleep again. The other doesn't.
    - robert_tweed 7y ago
      Do you have any references for synapses changing size with use? A quick google indicates the opposite, if anything: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/neuroskeptic/2015/06/08/brain-bigger-in-the-morning/ http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/neuroskeptic/2015/06/08/br... Brain expansion (not contraction) overnight is unexplained, but may be due to fluid retention. That definitely affects the spine - causing us to be slightly taller and less flexible in the morning.
      - DoreenMichele 7y ago
        Striking electron microscope pictures from inside the brains of mice suggest what happens in our own brain every day: Our synapses – the junctions between nerve cells – grow strong and large during the stimulation of daytime, then shrink by nearly 20 percent while we sleep, creating room for more growth and learning the next day. https://neurosciencenews.com/sleep-brain-reset-6047/ https://neurosciencenews.com/sleep-brain-reset-6047/ Sleep Shrinks the Brain--and That's a Good Thing Without a nighttime reset, synapses could burn out like an outlet with too many appliances plugged in https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sleep-shrinks-the-brain-and-thats-a-good-thing/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sleep-shrinks-the... The sleeping and the anesthetized mice had a 60% increase in the volume of fluid, apparently because brain cells actually shrink to allow more space in the channels. When the researchers woke the mice up, the flow of fluid into the brain abruptly slowed. http://m.nautil.us/blog/sleep-when-brain-cells-shrink--neuro-trash-is-flushed-away http://m.nautil.us/blog/sleep-when-brain-cells-shrink--neuro...
        robert_tweed 7y ago
        Interesting, thanks.

by sak5sk 7y ago

rexpop 7y ago

I imagine there are second-order effects of sustained e.g. amyloid saturation.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

DoreenMichele 7y ago

Articles and studies I've seen suggest that it takes more than one night to get caught up and that some things become seriously intractable if you are routinely short of sleep.

radium3d 7y ago
That's interesting, I wonder if this harvard study on "catching up on sleep" accidentally shows in some way how much sleep is required to flush out the toxins? They stated, "10-hour sleep opportunities consistently restored vigilance task performance during the first several hours of wakefulness." https://stm.sciencemag.org/content/2/14/14ra3.abstract https://stm.sciencemag.org/content/2/14/14ra3.abstract
- DoreenMichele 7y ago
  I looked at the link. They actually were also having people stay up longer, so I don't think you can conclude that. The brain also "resets" during sleep. As part of that process, it shrinks substantially. Aa you do stuff during the day, synapses swell as they see repetitive use of the same pathways. This reinforces those ideas or actions, crowding out other things. In order to restore short term memory formation and the ability to learn new things, your brain has to reset at night. There's also interesting research on two proteins, amyloid and tau, that accumulate faster when people are sleep deprived. They are both associated with Alzheimer's. One of them rapidly resolves when you get caught up on sleep again. The other doesn't.
  - robert_tweed 7y ago
    Do you have any references for synapses changing size with use? A quick google indicates the opposite, if anything: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/neuroskeptic/2015/06/08/brain-bigger-in-the-morning/ http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/neuroskeptic/2015/06/08/br... Brain expansion (not contraction) overnight is unexplained, but may be due to fluid retention. That definitely affects the spine - causing us to be slightly taller and less flexible in the morning.
    - DoreenMichele 7y ago
      Striking electron microscope pictures from inside the brains of mice suggest what happens in our own brain every day: Our synapses – the junctions between nerve cells – grow strong and large during the stimulation of daytime, then shrink by nearly 20 percent while we sleep, creating room for more growth and learning the next day. https://neurosciencenews.com/sleep-brain-reset-6047/ https://neurosciencenews.com/sleep-brain-reset-6047/ Sleep Shrinks the Brain--and That's a Good Thing Without a nighttime reset, synapses could burn out like an outlet with too many appliances plugged in https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sleep-shrinks-the-brain-and-thats-a-good-thing/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sleep-shrinks-the... The sleeping and the anesthetized mice had a 60% increase in the volume of fluid, apparently because brain cells actually shrink to allow more space in the channels. When the researchers woke the mice up, the flow of fluid into the brain abruptly slowed. http://m.nautil.us/blog/sleep-when-brain-cells-shrink--neuro-trash-is-flushed-away http://m.nautil.us/blog/sleep-when-brain-cells-shrink--neuro...
      - robert_tweed 7y ago
        Interesting, thanks.