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Title is slightly misleading! Most of them are Islamic but not Arabic. Khawrazmi [1], Karaji [2], Khayyam [3], and Tusi [4] were all Persian. Ibn Haytham wrote
by namirez 7y ago
Title is slightly misleading! Most of them are Islamic but not Arabic. Khawrazmi [1], Karaji [2], Khayyam [3], and Tusi [4] were all Persian. Ibn Haytham wrote only in Arabic though.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_ibn_Musa_al-Khwarizmi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_ibn_Musa_al-Khwarizmi
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Karaji https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Karaji
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_Khayyam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_Khayyam
[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharaf_al-D%C4%ABn_al-%E1%B9%AC%C5%ABs%C4%AB https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharaf_al-D%C4%ABn_al-%E1%B9%A...
- csomar 7y agoArab refers to the people living in the Arabic world. If you were to bind it by an ethnicity, most of the people living in the Arab world "Today" would not be Arabs. From Wikipedia: Arabs are a population inhabiting the Arab world.
- et-al 7y agonamirez's point is that the historical people mentioned are Persians being called Arabs. And there are Persians that would take offense to this association.
- csomar 7y ago> And there are Persians that would take offense to this association. Believe me, it's the same here in North-Africa and Arabs are really loathed. But again, it's a nomination that's often mistaken for an ethnicity.
- vinay427 7y agoMuch of North Africa is considered part of the Arab world today, as it often refers to places where a dialect of Arabic is spoken and the culture has been affected in parallel. This is a key difference as Persian isn't even considered to be in the same language family as Arabic, unlike the dialects of Arabic that are predominant in the region approximately spanning Morocco to Egypt.
- posterboy 7y agoDialects like French? Ha!
- vinay427 7y agoNo, not like French. Around 85% of Moroccans are fluent in Moroccan Arabic and about 72% of Algerians speak Algerian Arabic, more than any other language (particularly Berber and French) in their respective countries as far as I can tell. A similar story exists in Tunisia, despite a majority of the country also apparently speaking French. I think it's pretty fair to call these dialects of Arabic the predominant languages.
- nwallin 7y ago> From Wikipedia: Arabs are a population inhabiting the Arab world. Also from Wikipedia: Persia, present day Iran, is not part of the Arab world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_world https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_world
- csomar 7y agoThis is the Arab world today, not at that time.
- jacobolus 7y agoIt’s a shorthand; “Arabic” or “Islamic” mathematicians were from a wide range of religions, ethnic groups, regions, etc. It’s similar to the way we call all of the mathematicians of ~ 500 BCE – 500 CE “Greek”, even though most of the later ones were Roman citizens living in Egypt or elsewhere. Or the way we call Mesopotamian mathematics generically “Babylonian”, even though most of it was from other cities, and some of the relevant developments lumped in are from before Babylon per se existed, done by people of a different ethnic group who spoke a different language. Or the way Soviet scientists are often called “Russian”.
- acqq 7y agoThe Greeks living in Egypt were actually Greeks, even during the existence of the Roman Empire. The Persian mathematicians living in Persia in the times after the Islamic conquest simply weren't Arabs, exactly like the Greeks weren't Romans after the Roman conquest. One doesn't get the new ethnicity by being occupied.
- jacobolus 7y agoSome of them were ethnically Hellene. But folks of any ethnicity throughout the Roman empire (or earlier the Alexandrian empire etc.) of the time who wanted to do mathematical work would have probably traveled to Alexandria or Athens to study and would have written mathematical results in Greek, which was the language of science/mathematics/philosophy of the day. We unfortunately don’t have too many biographical details about most of the famous “Greek” mathematicians, so it’s generally not precisely known what their background was.
- dingoegret 7y agoThis is not true. They were likely ethnically Egyptian or Phoenician or Libyan but had Hellenic names. In the same way the Iranian mathematicians in the article had Arabic names. Culture and language often cross ethnic boundaries and it's up to historians to piece it all together.
- ignoramous 7y ago
- dfhdshfff 7y agoarab is not used as an ethnicity but refers to someone who speaks arabic as a mother tongue. In the same way, that North africans refer to themselves as Arabs although genetically they are less than 50% Arab.
- mehrdadn 7y agoA whopping ~2% of Iranians have Arabic as their native language. That means, if you're going based on language, you're mislabeling 98% of the population.
- dfhdshfff 7y agoI hold it to be obvious that I'm talking about the scientists (That lived in the Islamic Golden age) not about modern day Iran. Plus Most of them were not born in Iran proper.
- jlg23 7y ago> In the same way, that North africans refer to themselves as Arabs although genetically they are less than 50% Arab. Not sure where you got this from, here in Morocco, calling a Berber an Arab is a pretty sure way to piss him/her off.
- dfhdshfff 7y agoTunisia, Lybia. 99% of Tunisians self identify as Arabs
- romwell 7y agoThe article talks about that: >Nor were all these mathematicians Arabs, but for convenience we will call our topic "Arab mathematics". >The regions from which the "Arab mathematicians" came was centred on Iran/Iraq but varied with military conquest during the period. At its greatest extent it stretched to the west through Turkey and North Africa to include most of Spain, and to the east as far as the borders of China.
- devnulloverflow 7y agoBut is it really a convenience, or is it just a way of ratifying our own ignorance after it has been caught out. "Iranian" mathematicians would be just as convenient, and less in inaccurate. "Arabic Mathematicians" has some justification as (I suppose) most of these guys were publishing in the Arabic language. But to then switch to ethnic designator Arab is plain wrong.
- romwell 7y ago>"Arabic Mathematicians" has some justification as (I suppose) most of these guys were publishing in the Arabic language. But to then switch to ethnic designator Arab is plain wrong Perhaps so, and "Persian math" doesn't take much to say. But then, the distinction between Arabic and Arab is subtle enough that I wouldn't notice at a glance. (Other ethnicities don't even get a different adjective for language, e.g. Russian, French, etc) It's hard to change language around things like that. For instance, Igor Sikorsky (of the Pan-Am Clipper, and later helicopter fame) is know as a Russian-American inventor, even though he was born, educated, and flourished as an aviator in Kiev, Ukraine (then a part of Russian Empire). Sikorsky's father was a Russian Nationalist. Should we call him a Ukrainian-American given all that? I would, but's a subject of contention over a hundred years after his Ilya Muromets (first 4-engine bomber in production) took flight. For better or worse, though, we use language to get a point across. "Russian aviation" and "Russian rocketry" gets a certain notion across very fast, even though many key contributors to that notion, like Sikorsky and Korolev (of Sputnik and first-man-in-space fame, among other things) were born, raised, and educated in Ukraine[2]. Perhaps it's the same with "Arab math". [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Sikorsky https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Sikorsky [2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Korolev https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Korolev
- systems 7y agoDid they write their mathematics books in Persian, or Arabic? If they wrote their books in Arabic, living in Arabic land They are Arabic scientist If a Russian, scientist, lived and studied in USA, to which country would you attribute his work or achievements, Russia or USA
- forgingahead 7y agoSlightly? The title is completely wrong!
- maram 7y agoThis is the reason its called Islamic Civilization. Most of its scientist weren't Arab. Arabic dictionary wasn't even written by an Arab. But as I have noticed many people don't feel comfortable to reference a religion, so they go with race. But find it interesting that we label these scientist based on their origin, not the place that gave them all the reasons to become all they were capable of becoming.. This is like saying Sergey Brin is a Russian entrepreneur.
- namirez 7y agoIf Brin lived in Russia, spoke Russian, and wrote books in Russian we wouldn't call him American just because he wrote a few books in English too. Perhaps you're not familiar with the history of that part of the world, but the individuals that I named were Persian speakers, who lived in a region that is called the Greater Iran today, and wrote most of their work in Persian. But in all fairness, Arabic was the lingua-franca at the time so they wrote books in Arabic too. A better example would be to call Grigori Perelman an American mathematician because he published his work on arXiv [1]. [1] https://arxiv.org/abs/math/0303109 https://arxiv.org/abs/math/0303109
- dfhdshfff 7y ago> If Brin lived in Russia, spoke Russian, and wrote books in Russian we wouldn't call him American just because he wrote a few books in English too. But if he spoke Enlgish, had an English name, lived his professional life in America. and most of his major works were in Enlgish. I'd supposed you'd call him an "Anglophone" academic, which is the sense that Arab is used in.
- Aenyn 7y ago>the individuals that I named were Persian speakers, who lived in a region that is called the Greater Iran today, and wrote most of their work in Persian And yet they are called Arab mathematicians.
- deleted 7y ago
- Haga 7y agoIran, we meet again! The Americans of the meddle east.
- ptah 7y agoyou mean Iranian right? "Persian" is a colonial term
- vinay427 7y agoWhile you are correct in that it is an exonym, it's not exactly what I, and I assume many others today, would think of when you say "colonial." The origin of the word dates back to thousands of years ago when no present government or society existed. For those who would like to read a little more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Iran https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Iran
- ptah 7y agofrom your link: "In the Western world, Persia (or one of its cognates) was historically the common name for Iran" so I will stick to saying colonial as it accurately points to the western world as opposed to Africa or Asia for example
- vinay427 7y agoI don't disagree about the name that should be used, as I said. I just think calling it colonial needs a little more context for people who would not unreasonably assume it's something more similar to Western colonialism of India or something. On that note, "India"/Hindustan/Hindu/etc. are somewhat similarly colonial-rooted names, ironically popularized by the Iranians.
- ptah 7y ago"western colonialism" is redundant. "colonialism" will suffice :)
- C1sc0cat 7y agoAbsolutely its normally used to refer to the Persian "empires" which you know colonised other lands and where a lot larger that Iran is today.
- 7y ago