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Banks in the US generally don't have APIs and adoption of contactless payments is not great. I think that's the biggest thing here - you have a bunch of custom

Banks in the US generally don't have APIs and adoption of contactless payments is not great. I think that's the biggest thing here - you have a bunch of customers who will be incentivized to use contactless for better rewards. That should drive more people to use it and more stores to support it.

deleted 7y ago
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noir_lord 7y ago
Contactless is already ubiquitous in the UK, everything from the local corner shop to the guy selling pizza at the last public event I went to takes it. It's rare I have to put my pin in these days since I don't have many single transactions over 30 quid.
- pwinnski 7y ago
  That's one of the funny differences I've seen between UK and US. Contactless is ubiquitous in the UK, and less so in the US. But there is no £30 limit on contactless payments in the US. I've used tap-to-pay with Apple Pay to spend hundreds of dollars in a single purchase, no pin, no signature, no problem.
  - noir_lord 7y ago
    A lot of people using contactless in the UK are using debit cards not credit cards which lack (here at least) the strong fraud protections that credit cards do - which is one of the reasons I put my new computer on my partners card then transferred the money to her bank to bank to settle it, so the £30 limit without pin acts as a brake on a stolen card giving the person who lost it time to report it as lost. It used to be £15 but well inflation is a thing.
  - AdamGibbins 7y ago
    These are different things. There's a £30 limit on Android/Apple payments, and contactless cards if the payment terminal only supports contactless. If they have a new enough terminal that also directly supports Apple/Android pay, there is no cap.
  - gls2ro 7y ago
    There is a list of possible restrictions (when the PIN is asked) which are different per countries. Source: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207435 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207435
  - e-dard 7y ago
    The £30 Apple Pay limit in the UK is becoming less of a thing. In major retailers that accept Apple Pay I have used my phone to pay for items into the hundreds of pounds without issue.
- wlesieutre 7y ago
  Funny you mention PINs. We did finally get chipped cards in the US, but it’s “chip and signature” so we’re missing some of the security improvements. Harder to skim at least? Phone and watch based NFC will eventually displace that I think.
  - robjan 7y ago
    I personally prefer Chip and Signature. We have the same system in Hong Kong where most cards have a Chip and PIN but most card readers will just ask for your signature anyway. It puts the burden on the merchant to check the signature instead of the cardholder to not have their PIN guessed/overseen. We also seem to have no limit on PayWave (contactless) transactions but for larger purchasers the merchant may ask for a signature over the "No Signature Required" slip anyway.
    - mullingitover 7y ago
      > It puts the burden on the merchant to check the signature instead of the cardholder to not have their PIN guessed/overseen Maybe it's different in HK, but here in US and A I literally just make random scribbles (or sometimes just write "void" for kicks) and nothing is ever checked.
      - robjan 7y ago
        Works the same in HK but if you notice a suspicious transaction you can get it reversed when the signature doesn't match. If you use the PIN it's a lot harder to reverse.
    - wlesieutre 7y ago
      Agreed with sibling comment, here in the US signatures are never checked. I've had chip cards for years and can't remember it happening once.
dangus 7y ago
I've noticed this year that a lot of card system vendors have updated their software to enable contactless on their card machines. I actually use my contactless card all over the place in the US, and I was even shocked and surprised to see that the MARC vending machines in Baltimore/DC supporting contactless to buy train tickets. The number of US customers actually receiving the cards and being trained to use them is very low, and that's a problem. As an aside, I actually like plain contactless better than Apple Pay. It's overall a faster transaction, no fussing with phone unlocks. I don't really care whether or not it's more or less secure - that's my bank's problem, not mine.
- wlesieutre 7y ago
  I’m a fan of my Apple Watch for that. Quicker than getting a phone out, no need to unlock, and I always have it even without my wallet.
  - dangus 7y ago
    I have an Apple Watch, weirdly I don't find myself doing that a lot. Something about turning the screen around and being unable to see it. Although I think the newer watch versions have a better interface that comes up quicker. I might want to try using it more often. Still, you have to admit that having a $400 watch as a barrier vs. a card that my bank gave me for free is a bit of an advantage toward the contactless card.
    - wlesieutre 7y ago
      For sure, it's just a convenient feature if you already have one. If you haven't used it, the flow is: 1) Double press the side button (not the crown) 2) Put watch on reader Optionally you can swipe left/right to change which card you're using, but it's immediately ready to go with the default one.
- jaxbot 7y ago
  Same. Basically anyone with a newer Veriphone system (which everyone seemed to roll out back when we switched to chip) seems to support it. I use Google Pay, so it's not Apple-specific anyhow. But it's so much faster to process than the chip cards, even if I already had both my phone and card in my hand.

deleted 7y ago

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noir_lord 7y ago

Contactless is already ubiquitous in the UK, everything from the local corner shop to the guy selling pizza at the last public event I went to takes it. It's rare I have to put my pin in these days since I don't have many single transactions over 30 quid.

pwinnski 7y ago
That's one of the funny differences I've seen between UK and US. Contactless is ubiquitous in the UK, and less so in the US. But there is no £30 limit on contactless payments in the US. I've used tap-to-pay with Apple Pay to spend hundreds of dollars in a single purchase, no pin, no signature, no problem.
- noir_lord 7y ago
  A lot of people using contactless in the UK are using debit cards not credit cards which lack (here at least) the strong fraud protections that credit cards do - which is one of the reasons I put my new computer on my partners card then transferred the money to her bank to bank to settle it, so the £30 limit without pin acts as a brake on a stolen card giving the person who lost it time to report it as lost. It used to be £15 but well inflation is a thing.
- AdamGibbins 7y ago
  These are different things. There's a £30 limit on Android/Apple payments, and contactless cards if the payment terminal only supports contactless. If they have a new enough terminal that also directly supports Apple/Android pay, there is no cap.
- gls2ro 7y ago
  There is a list of possible restrictions (when the PIN is asked) which are different per countries. Source: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207435 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207435
- e-dard 7y ago
  The £30 Apple Pay limit in the UK is becoming less of a thing. In major retailers that accept Apple Pay I have used my phone to pay for items into the hundreds of pounds without issue.
wlesieutre 7y ago
Funny you mention PINs. We did finally get chipped cards in the US, but it’s “chip and signature” so we’re missing some of the security improvements. Harder to skim at least? Phone and watch based NFC will eventually displace that I think.
- robjan 7y ago
  I personally prefer Chip and Signature. We have the same system in Hong Kong where most cards have a Chip and PIN but most card readers will just ask for your signature anyway. It puts the burden on the merchant to check the signature instead of the cardholder to not have their PIN guessed/overseen. We also seem to have no limit on PayWave (contactless) transactions but for larger purchasers the merchant may ask for a signature over the "No Signature Required" slip anyway.
  - mullingitover 7y ago
    > It puts the burden on the merchant to check the signature instead of the cardholder to not have their PIN guessed/overseen Maybe it's different in HK, but here in US and A I literally just make random scribbles (or sometimes just write "void" for kicks) and nothing is ever checked.
    - robjan 7y ago
      Works the same in HK but if you notice a suspicious transaction you can get it reversed when the signature doesn't match. If you use the PIN it's a lot harder to reverse.
  - wlesieutre 7y ago
    Agreed with sibling comment, here in the US signatures are never checked. I've had chip cards for years and can't remember it happening once.

dangus 7y ago

I've noticed this year that a lot of card system vendors have updated their software to enable contactless on their card machines. I actually use my contactless card all over the place in the US, and I was even shocked and surprised to see that the MARC vending machines in Baltimore/DC supporting contactless to buy train tickets. The number of US customers actually receiving the cards and being trained to use them is very low, and that's a problem. As an aside, I actually like plain contactless better than Apple Pay. It's overall a faster transaction, no fussing with phone unlocks. I don't really care whether or not it's more or less secure - that's my bank's problem, not mine.

wlesieutre 7y ago
I’m a fan of my Apple Watch for that. Quicker than getting a phone out, no need to unlock, and I always have it even without my wallet.
- dangus 7y ago
  I have an Apple Watch, weirdly I don't find myself doing that a lot. Something about turning the screen around and being unable to see it. Although I think the newer watch versions have a better interface that comes up quicker. I might want to try using it more often. Still, you have to admit that having a $400 watch as a barrier vs. a card that my bank gave me for free is a bit of an advantage toward the contactless card.
  - wlesieutre 7y ago
    For sure, it's just a convenient feature if you already have one. If you haven't used it, the flow is: 1) Double press the side button (not the crown) 2) Put watch on reader Optionally you can swipe left/right to change which card you're using, but it's immediately ready to go with the default one.
jaxbot 7y ago
Same. Basically anyone with a newer Veriphone system (which everyone seemed to roll out back when we switched to chip) seems to support it. I use Google Pay, so it's not Apple-specific anyhow. But it's so much faster to process than the chip cards, even if I already had both my phone and card in my hand.