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Uhm, those countries that got "some" amount of migrants which wasn't massive (only Jordan has more than 600k refugees) and certainly they weren't welcomed despi

Uhm, those countries that got "some" amount of migrants which wasn't massive (only Jordan has more than 600k refugees) and certainly they weren't welcomed despite the rhetoric by EU (i mean they are welcome AFTER they survived and weren't drowned?), they NEVER tried to integrate migrants and refugees. At the entry countries most of them simply thrown in concentration camps financed by EU, later on they were getting returned back to Turkey, Libya etc. Now of course there was a plan about distributing some migrants BUT let me remind you that those quota NEVER achieved, most european countries never received the amount of refugees they were "obligated" to. The distribution plan wasn't because refugees gathered for example here in Greece and they wanted to stay here, not at all, most of them wanted to leave the country. It was only a passage for them to other countries. Many people had family waiting for them. What happened? Walls were raised. Borders were closed and Greece almost kicked out of schengen (informally it was suspended). Obviously the government was forced to accept the EU plan about keeping the migrants in concentration camps and distribute some people around the europe (that again never really happened other than a small extend). Later on the EU-Turkey deal happened. Nowdays that xenophobic, anti-immigration feelings are in rise you can hear that plain and simple even by moderate politicians that when syrian war is over refugees are out of here. In other words, there never was an open borders and integration policy that failed. It is the same fascist policy by EU that getting people killed or rot in prison.

thefounder 7y ago
Most of them had no family in the country seeking asylum. If they had family members there they could apply for visa at any embassy in the world and most likely won't arrive by boat. Truth is they were looking for better conditions. >> Uhm, those countries that got "some" amount of migrants which wasn't massive (only Jordan has more than 600k refugees) Germany got about 1.5 million migrants. The question is what is the plan? Most of the EU governments dodged the question and thus the reason people voted far right. In Germany they have tried to integrate them[1] but the truth is that not all of them integrate and of course all this integration comes with a cost. Now keep in mind that not all the countries are run like Germany and even Germany has found itself overwhelmed by the task thus asking for "solidarity" from the other member states. Greece can't manage its own unemployment let alone train, educate and integrate migrants. I think you confuse refugee camps with concentration camps which are entirely different things. There is no need to dramatise it any further. >> In other words, there never was an open border... There was an open border policy but it didn't work[1]. It proved that letting people in freely won't end the migration issue, it only makes it worse. I would even say this open border policy is the reason why migration from Africa through mediterranean sea intensified and we see so many drowned now. >> It is the same fascist policy by EU that getting people killed or rot in prison. I think it's just not fair to say that. You can see anti-immigration feelings all over the world where you have mass immigration. I don't even mention the leader of the free world(U.S). Even in Turkey, Istanbul which is closer culturally with the migrants they started deporting illegal immigrants with the exception of Syrians(due the EU agreement). Truth is that I don't see why anyone would want to integrate millions of unskilled immigrants from conflict zones. Some of them don't even want to integrate. We have a responsibility to offer food and shelter but not to make them european citizens. There is a different path for that(i.e skills based visa). [0] https://www.thelocal.de/20181214/germany-integrating-migrants-quickly-business-chief https://www.thelocal.de/20181214/germany-integrating-migrant... [1] https://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-germany-merkel-refugees-20190212-story.html https://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-germany-merkel-re...
- despera 7y ago
  I think you really mix things up, refugees, migrants, numbers. I think you just hiding behind that excuse for an integration plan for something that has happened before again and again even to countries with pretty much no infrastructure. >> Greece can't manage its own unemployment let alone train, educate and integrate migrants. It's funny you saying that because Greece is a good example of open borders back to 90s and the influx of hundreds thousand of migrants from Albania. Was there any plan? Absolutely nothing. There were tensions and racist attacks but in perspective they did have a positive effect to the greek economy that wasn't back then any better than it is now. And they did integrate to society. >>I would even say this open border policy is the reason why migration from Africa through mediterranean sea intensified and we see so many drowned now. That's exactly what right wingers are saying. And makes absolutely no sense. Offer to those people safe and guaranteed passage and they will not be drowned, won't be killed, won't be raped on their way to wherever they want to go. Why do people have to make this complicated? "As mood sours, Syrians report forced deportations from Turkey" https://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-syrians/as-mood-sours-syrians-report-forced-deportations-from-turkey-idUSKCN1UK1QE https://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-syrians/as-mood-so... "Greek Coast Guard caught on video pushing a boat full of refugees back to Turkey" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k2THtF9h6M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k2THtF9h6M "EU border force Frontex implicated in migrant abuse" https://www.dw.com/en/eu-border-force-frontex-implicated-in-migrant-abuse/a-49892097 https://www.dw.com/en/eu-border-force-frontex-implicated-in-... https://twitter.com/_sophiamaier/status/1151484044095496192 https://twitter.com/_sophiamaier/status/1151484044095496192
  - thefounder 7y ago
    Why don't you clear up these numbers? I think you are a denier and simply refuse to see the other side of the coin. Even refuse to accept that Europe has faced a massive immigration issue. Turkey got almost 4 million refugees. Were not the EU agreement these people would be heading towards Europe. The issue it's not really complicated. You just have to admit that massive immigration has some social and economic costs. Maybe not for the wealthy but surely for the leas fortunate "natives". Right wing wins because of deniers like you who can't provide a compromise solution. "Let them all in and we see afterwards how we handle it" doesn't put people at ease. Not to mention the security risk.

thefounder 7y ago

Most of them had no family in the country seeking asylum. If they had family members there they could apply for visa at any embassy in the world and most likely won't arrive by boat. Truth is they were looking for better conditions. >> Uhm, those countries that got "some" amount of migrants which wasn't massive (only Jordan has more than 600k refugees) Germany got about 1.5 million migrants. The question is what is the plan? Most of the EU governments dodged the question and thus the reason people voted far right. In Germany they have tried to integrate them[1] but the truth is that not all of them integrate and of course all this integration comes with a cost. Now keep in mind that not all the countries are run like Germany and even Germany has found itself overwhelmed by the task thus asking for "solidarity" from the other member states. Greece can't manage its own unemployment let alone train, educate and integrate migrants. I think you confuse refugee camps with concentration camps which are entirely different things. There is no need to dramatise it any further. >> In other words, there never was an open border... There was an open border policy but it didn't work[1]. It proved that letting people in freely won't end the migration issue, it only makes it worse. I would even say this open border policy is the reason why migration from Africa through mediterranean sea intensified and we see so many drowned now. >> It is the same fascist policy by EU that getting people killed or rot in prison. I think it's just not fair to say that. You can see anti-immigration feelings all over the world where you have mass immigration. I don't even mention the leader of the free world(U.S). Even in Turkey, Istanbul which is closer culturally with the migrants they started deporting illegal immigrants with the exception of Syrians(due the EU agreement). Truth is that I don't see why anyone would want to integrate millions of unskilled immigrants from conflict zones. Some of them don't even want to integrate. We have a responsibility to offer food and shelter but not to make them european citizens. There is a different path for that(i.e skills based visa). [0] https://www.thelocal.de/20181214/germany-integrating-migrants-quickly-business-chief https://www.thelocal.de/20181214/germany-integrating-migrant... [1] https://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-germany-merkel-refugees-20190212-story.html https://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-germany-merkel-re...

despera 7y ago
I think you really mix things up, refugees, migrants, numbers. I think you just hiding behind that excuse for an integration plan for something that has happened before again and again even to countries with pretty much no infrastructure. >> Greece can't manage its own unemployment let alone train, educate and integrate migrants. It's funny you saying that because Greece is a good example of open borders back to 90s and the influx of hundreds thousand of migrants from Albania. Was there any plan? Absolutely nothing. There were tensions and racist attacks but in perspective they did have a positive effect to the greek economy that wasn't back then any better than it is now. And they did integrate to society. >>I would even say this open border policy is the reason why migration from Africa through mediterranean sea intensified and we see so many drowned now. That's exactly what right wingers are saying. And makes absolutely no sense. Offer to those people safe and guaranteed passage and they will not be drowned, won't be killed, won't be raped on their way to wherever they want to go. Why do people have to make this complicated? "As mood sours, Syrians report forced deportations from Turkey" https://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-syrians/as-mood-sours-syrians-report-forced-deportations-from-turkey-idUSKCN1UK1QE https://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-syrians/as-mood-so... "Greek Coast Guard caught on video pushing a boat full of refugees back to Turkey" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k2THtF9h6M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k2THtF9h6M "EU border force Frontex implicated in migrant abuse" https://www.dw.com/en/eu-border-force-frontex-implicated-in-migrant-abuse/a-49892097 https://www.dw.com/en/eu-border-force-frontex-implicated-in-... https://twitter.com/_sophiamaier/status/1151484044095496192 https://twitter.com/_sophiamaier/status/1151484044095496192
- thefounder 7y ago
  Why don't you clear up these numbers? I think you are a denier and simply refuse to see the other side of the coin. Even refuse to accept that Europe has faced a massive immigration issue. Turkey got almost 4 million refugees. Were not the EU agreement these people would be heading towards Europe. The issue it's not really complicated. You just have to admit that massive immigration has some social and economic costs. Maybe not for the wealthy but surely for the leas fortunate "natives". Right wing wins because of deniers like you who can't provide a compromise solution. "Let them all in and we see afterwards how we handle it" doesn't put people at ease. Not to mention the security risk.