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In this comment (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20316831 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20316831) you used the formal term "mother" . Why did you sw

In this comment (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20316831 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20316831) you used the formal term "mother" . Why did you switch to "momma" when talking about Black families?

bubblewrap 7y ago
Just for fun, going with the scenario. Why not? Edit: rate limited by HN, so here is my reply to the question below: Racist - seriously? So "momma" is not a word that is ever used? Is it a word from the AAVE - so why would it be mocking the AAVE? I'm not a native speaker of English. But honestly, I don't care about that level of political correctness. I doubt that using "momma" is as big of a deal as you make it sound. Edit 2: no being black doesn't imply speaking differently, but the scenario here was poor oppressed black girls obsessing over white dolls, with mothers who don't care to buy them black dolls. Also, just because I used "momma" doesn't imply all blacks only ever say "momma". What weird twisted logic is that? In the same vein, if I had used "mother", I wouldn't have denied black identity by claiming no black people ever say "momma". If you are offended by little things like that, then sure, your life will be difficult. Lighten up! (no pun intended - I mean the mood, not your skin color). I am actually a bit offended by you being offended, by the way! Why do you think so badly of me, without even knowing me (interpreting my words in the worst way)? It seems you have a lot of bias against me.
- PascLeRasc 7y ago
  It comes across as racist and mocking of AAVE. Is that fun for you?
- TheodolphusRose 7y ago
  I found it pretty offensive. Being Black does not imply speaking differently and your message seems to indicate that you think it does.
- TheodolphusRose 7y ago
  In response to your second edit, I disagree with your claim that choosing to use the term “mother” vs “momma” is neutral or symmetric. When you choose to use the common term “mother,” it implies nothing in particular. Intentionally choosing to use the word “momma” on the other hand is not a neutral decision. You specifically chose to use it to refer to Black mothers. And your statement about “denying black identity” just reinforces the argument that you associate Black people with a certain manner of speech. I have no bias against you. I’m just trying to explain to you why some people find your original statement offensive. Instead of defending it, just try to consider how it may make your audience feel in the future.
  - bubblewrap 7y ago
    The example on Wiktionary given for momma is "My momma's so great: she bakes me cookies every week." https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/momma https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/momma As I said, I am not a native speaker, so I don't really know how momma is typically used (if at all). It was more of a spontaneous use on a whim. But I also haven't found any indication yet that it is a derogatory term. Sorry I still think the "offense taken" is overblown. I am also not concerned about not offending anybody at all. Frankly I think many people who feel offended about certain things perhaps should just get over themselves. I mean in this case, is momma used in the real world? If so, then I think it should be OK to use it. I don't believe in censoring statements about the real world. Thanks for trying to explain, though.
    - MrRadar 7y ago
      "Momma" is used much more frequently in AAVE than General American English. Your use of it in this context comes across as being mocking of black Americans. (Perhaps the missing bit of cultural context is that racists often use exaggerated AAVE to mock black Americans.)
      - bubblewrap 7y ago
        I've never heard of AAVE before. Wikipedia claims it is "natively spoken, particularly in urban communities, by most working- and middle-class African Americans and some Black Canadians" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_Vernacular_English https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_Vernacular_En... So if it is so commonly used, why on earth should it be offensive to refer to it? In what way would you consider my statement "mocking"? I don't think it is very relevant what racists commonly do. I don't feel obliged to obtain knowledge about the lifestyle of racists, and neither should anybody else. Even more interesting in the context of the original complaint of there not being enough books with black heroes. So if a white writer would write such a book, they wouldn't be allowed to use the word "momma" or refer to anything that PoC might do that is different from white people? You are creating an impossible world.
dang 7y ago
Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar. The site guidelines ask you to flag egregious comments rather than replying. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

bubblewrap 7y ago

Just for fun, going with the scenario. Why not? Edit: rate limited by HN, so here is my reply to the question below: Racist - seriously? So "momma" is not a word that is ever used? Is it a word from the AAVE - so why would it be mocking the AAVE? I'm not a native speaker of English. But honestly, I don't care about that level of political correctness. I doubt that using "momma" is as big of a deal as you make it sound. Edit 2: no being black doesn't imply speaking differently, but the scenario here was poor oppressed black girls obsessing over white dolls, with mothers who don't care to buy them black dolls. Also, just because I used "momma" doesn't imply all blacks only ever say "momma". What weird twisted logic is that? In the same vein, if I had used "mother", I wouldn't have denied black identity by claiming no black people ever say "momma". If you are offended by little things like that, then sure, your life will be difficult. Lighten up! (no pun intended - I mean the mood, not your skin color). I am actually a bit offended by you being offended, by the way! Why do you think so badly of me, without even knowing me (interpreting my words in the worst way)? It seems you have a lot of bias against me.

PascLeRasc 7y ago
It comes across as racist and mocking of AAVE. Is that fun for you?
TheodolphusRose 7y ago
I found it pretty offensive. Being Black does not imply speaking differently and your message seems to indicate that you think it does.
TheodolphusRose 7y ago
In response to your second edit, I disagree with your claim that choosing to use the term “mother” vs “momma” is neutral or symmetric. When you choose to use the common term “mother,” it implies nothing in particular. Intentionally choosing to use the word “momma” on the other hand is not a neutral decision. You specifically chose to use it to refer to Black mothers. And your statement about “denying black identity” just reinforces the argument that you associate Black people with a certain manner of speech. I have no bias against you. I’m just trying to explain to you why some people find your original statement offensive. Instead of defending it, just try to consider how it may make your audience feel in the future.
- bubblewrap 7y ago
  The example on Wiktionary given for momma is "My momma's so great: she bakes me cookies every week." https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/momma https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/momma As I said, I am not a native speaker, so I don't really know how momma is typically used (if at all). It was more of a spontaneous use on a whim. But I also haven't found any indication yet that it is a derogatory term. Sorry I still think the "offense taken" is overblown. I am also not concerned about not offending anybody at all. Frankly I think many people who feel offended about certain things perhaps should just get over themselves. I mean in this case, is momma used in the real world? If so, then I think it should be OK to use it. I don't believe in censoring statements about the real world. Thanks for trying to explain, though.
  - MrRadar 7y ago
    "Momma" is used much more frequently in AAVE than General American English. Your use of it in this context comes across as being mocking of black Americans. (Perhaps the missing bit of cultural context is that racists often use exaggerated AAVE to mock black Americans.)
    - bubblewrap 7y ago
      I've never heard of AAVE before. Wikipedia claims it is "natively spoken, particularly in urban communities, by most working- and middle-class African Americans and some Black Canadians" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_Vernacular_English https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_Vernacular_En... So if it is so commonly used, why on earth should it be offensive to refer to it? In what way would you consider my statement "mocking"? I don't think it is very relevant what racists commonly do. I don't feel obliged to obtain knowledge about the lifestyle of racists, and neither should anybody else. Even more interesting in the context of the original complaint of there not being enough books with black heroes. So if a white writer would write such a book, they wouldn't be allowed to use the word "momma" or refer to anything that PoC might do that is different from white people? You are creating an impossible world.

dang 7y ago

Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar. The site guidelines ask you to flag egregious comments rather than replying. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html