4 ms·

"The average American can't come up with $500" >The lowest-income households in the U.S. on average spend $412 annually on lottery tickets[1] >In the U.S., pe

"The average American can't come up with $500" >The lowest-income households in the U.S. on average spend $412 annually on lottery tickets[1] >In the U.S., people living below the poverty level and people having lower levels of educational attainment have higher rates of cigarette smoking than the general population[2] >Among smoking households, the mean quarterly expenditure on cigarettes in constant 2015 dollars was US$458[3] [1]https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-12/the-poorest-americans-risk-the-most-in-hopes-of-striking-it-rich https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-12/the-poore... [2]https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/disparities/low-ses/index.htm https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/disparities/low-ses/index.htm [3]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6009464/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6009464/

rkho 7y ago
I think the meaning here is that the average American finds themselves unable to execute on the fact that they have the means to save an emergency fund and are instead too focused on the short-term dopamine hits that they can get immediately.
ceejayoz 7y ago
Being able to come up with a dollar a day isn't the same as being able to come up with a year's worth of lump sum at once. Being poor changes how you think about money. Every time you save a few dollars, something happens - an unexpectedly high electricity bill, an unexpected doctor visit, losing your phone - and that minute bit of savings goes out the door. It's easy to get into the thought pattern that you might as well spend on something fun while you've got it. As for cigarettes, being as addictive than heroin will do that to ya.
- fuzz4lyfe 7y ago
  Does not saving prevent those events from happening? How are those events handled without savings? How would giving them more money resolve this problem?
  - ceejayoz 7y ago
    > Does not saving prevent those events from happening? That's not the point. Of course it doesn't - but that unexpected $35 copay for the urgent care visit would've wiped you out, whether you'd bought the $1 lottery ticket or not. At least you had a little burst of "man, if I won, I'd..." We know from studies that poverty dramatically changes short-term vs. long-term decision making. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5641572/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5641572/ > How are those events handled without savings? Be hungry the week after, pawn a possession, payday loan. > How would giving them more money resolve this problem? How would having money solve money problems? That's really the question?
    - fuzz4lyfe 7y ago
      >How would having money solve money problems? That's really the question? I have shown that they do have $500 to cover an emergency but they have chosen to spend it on lottery tickets and tobacco products. You claim that this is due to being poor and how they have poor impulse control and that makes them unable to save the money and instead the immediately spend it. If I give them another $500 why wouldn't they just spent that on more lottery tickets and tobacco products?
      - ceejayoz 7y ago
        > I have shown that they do have $500 to cover an emergency You have not. You've shown that after a year of not buying lottery tickets they might have that $500, with the caveat of the fact that we know that's not really how that works - any savings gets wiped out by the next unexpected bill long before that. > If I give them another $500 why wouldn't they just spent that too? Where was that suggested? That's a silly approach to the problem. Far more comprehensive solutions are necessary. Better housing policy, living wage, national healthcare, better regulation (or banning) of payday loans, guaranteed access to banking services, etc.
        fuzz4lyfe 7y ago
        >You have not. You've shown that after a year of not buying lottery tickets they might have that $500, with the caveat of the fact that we know that's not really how that works - any savings gets wiped out by the next unexpected bill long before that. I don't see how this math works. Lets say my total annual income is $5000 to keep the math easy. My spending looks like this: get $5000 paycheck (for the sake of ease of math) spend $3000 on rent spend $500 on lottery tickets spend $1000 on food spend $500 on tobacco Now I have a $500 bill that I don't have the money for. Conversely I could: get $5000 paycheck spend $3000 on rent spend $1000 on food Now I have a $500 bill that I can cover because I did not buy all those lottery tickets.
arcticbull 7y ago
Couldn't come up with that amount of money all at once. Lottery tickets and smoking add up to $2.38 per day.

rkho 7y ago

I think the meaning here is that the average American finds themselves unable to execute on the fact that they have the means to save an emergency fund and are instead too focused on the short-term dopamine hits that they can get immediately.

ceejayoz 7y ago

Being able to come up with a dollar a day isn't the same as being able to come up with a year's worth of lump sum at once. Being poor changes how you think about money. Every time you save a few dollars, something happens - an unexpectedly high electricity bill, an unexpected doctor visit, losing your phone - and that minute bit of savings goes out the door. It's easy to get into the thought pattern that you might as well spend on something fun while you've got it. As for cigarettes, being as addictive than heroin will do that to ya.

fuzz4lyfe 7y ago
Does not saving prevent those events from happening? How are those events handled without savings? How would giving them more money resolve this problem?
- ceejayoz 7y ago
  > Does not saving prevent those events from happening? That's not the point. Of course it doesn't - but that unexpected $35 copay for the urgent care visit would've wiped you out, whether you'd bought the $1 lottery ticket or not. At least you had a little burst of "man, if I won, I'd..." We know from studies that poverty dramatically changes short-term vs. long-term decision making. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5641572/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5641572/ > How are those events handled without savings? Be hungry the week after, pawn a possession, payday loan. > How would giving them more money resolve this problem? How would having money solve money problems? That's really the question?
  - fuzz4lyfe 7y ago
    >How would having money solve money problems? That's really the question? I have shown that they do have $500 to cover an emergency but they have chosen to spend it on lottery tickets and tobacco products. You claim that this is due to being poor and how they have poor impulse control and that makes them unable to save the money and instead the immediately spend it. If I give them another $500 why wouldn't they just spent that on more lottery tickets and tobacco products?
    - ceejayoz 7y ago
      > I have shown that they do have $500 to cover an emergency You have not. You've shown that after a year of not buying lottery tickets they might have that $500, with the caveat of the fact that we know that's not really how that works - any savings gets wiped out by the next unexpected bill long before that. > If I give them another $500 why wouldn't they just spent that too? Where was that suggested? That's a silly approach to the problem. Far more comprehensive solutions are necessary. Better housing policy, living wage, national healthcare, better regulation (or banning) of payday loans, guaranteed access to banking services, etc.
      - fuzz4lyfe 7y ago
        >You have not. You've shown that after a year of not buying lottery tickets they might have that $500, with the caveat of the fact that we know that's not really how that works - any savings gets wiped out by the next unexpected bill long before that. I don't see how this math works. Lets say my total annual income is $5000 to keep the math easy. My spending looks like this: get $5000 paycheck (for the sake of ease of math) spend $3000 on rent spend $500 on lottery tickets spend $1000 on food spend $500 on tobacco Now I have a $500 bill that I don't have the money for. Conversely I could: get $5000 paycheck spend $3000 on rent spend $1000 on food Now I have a $500 bill that I can cover because I did not buy all those lottery tickets.

arcticbull 7y ago

Couldn't come up with that amount of money all at once. Lottery tickets and smoking add up to $2.38 per day.