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1.) How is unlocking a phone "malware"? Isn't the lock malware, and the unlocking serves the owner of the device? Calling it malware reeks of regurgitating AT&T

• ijpoijpoihpiuoh 7y ago
  1. It's malware from the perspective of the entity whose computers it was installed on. To respond to your meta-point, phone locks are merely a technical control to help ensure consumers abide by their contractual obligations. At least, this is the case since companies have been obligated to offer unlocks for phones whose contracts are paid off. 2. Presumably, it's a combination of a number of mechanisms, like judgment-proof consumers or identity thieves unlocking and reselling devices.
  • rconti 7y ago
    Are they really obligated to offer unlocks now? I stopped getting subsidized phones 5 or so years ago (and it seems carriers mostly don't offer them anymore anyway), but I fought tooth and nail with multiple carriers to get my paid-for device unlocked, and usually the answer was "piss off".
    • sokoloff 7y ago
      Yes, since the enaction of this: https://www.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/senate-bill/517 https://www.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/senate-bill/517
      • kaibee 7y ago
        Technically yes, but in my experience... no. Recently my parents switched carriers for whatever reason, so I had to get a new phone. Honestly I would have kept my Note4 for another year, but whatever. Being a phone from, what 2014? it was well paid off at this point. 1. I went to the AT&T Store, asked them to unlock my phone. Was told, no sorry, we don't do that here. "Call the support line." 2. Called the support line, waited 20 minutes, was transferred to the correct department, waited another 20 minutes. Was told, we don't do that over the phone anymore. Go to this website here. 3. Went to the website. It asks for the number that is printed behind the battery (y'know back in my day, you could remove batteries from the devices you owned and replace them) Next, it asks for some device ID Number that you need to ask the phone for. So you turn it back on, follow the directions, etc. Then you submit the form. Then they tell you it can take up to 48 hours to get the unlock code. 4. Wait. 5. Receive absolutely no confirmation or acknowledgement that your request was received or actioned on at all. 6. Buy a new phone because it isn't worth the hassle.
        • yholio 7y ago
          Typical obfuscated process so that a company complies with the letter of the law but they make sure almost no users will go through with it.
        • ijpoijpoihpiuoh 7y ago
          I never had any trouble unlocking any of the iPhones my family purchased from AT&T.
• icedchai 7y ago
  It sounds like he had to install malware in the call center / AT&T remote location so he could get the unlock codes remotely. "Malware" is probably not the correct term. Once the phone is ported to another network, the original provider is basically SOL, contract or no.
  • judge2020 7y ago
    "unauthorized software" is better but this was malicious relative to AT&T.
• ljf 7y ago
  I think the malware was installed to allow him generate unlock codes on the at&t servers, not on phones
  • dmix 7y ago
    > Fahd allegedly recruited AT&T “insiders” to install malware programs that gathered confidential information and submitted unlock requests using employee credentials via a remote server. These were probably 3rd party call centers or section of the company that ran their customer service lines which gave agents the ability to unlock devices. The amount of spin this article is using to associate locking devices to keeping customers in long-term contracts is quite strong though.
    • HenryBemis 7y ago
      I cannot see how would his be profitable. Usually when a customer receives a new cellphone at a lower price, that comes with a 12-24 month extension of a proportionally expensive contract. After said contract expires, AT&T has already made its profit. Even if someone would want to take the device and use another company's SIM card, they would still have to honour the contract with AT&T. The only "free money" scenario I can think of, is stealing AT&T devices, and reselling them in the black market/ebay/etc and thus pocketing all the $$$ without having the customers signing contracts. Ps: this is why a large company needs a large Internal Audit department. Edit: removed an off-topic NSA-AT&T comment, added the Ps
      • londons_explore 7y ago
        Not all contracts with AT&T get fully paid off. A large number end up in collections or written off. AT&T doesn't want to issue unlock codes in those cases, because it severely reduces the chances of them getting paid.
      • mcpherrinm 7y ago
        Use a stolen credit card/identity to buy an iPhone on contract. You can walk out of the store with the phone that day and never pay AT&T another dime. Use this shady service to unlock without paying off the contract, and resell on the second-hand market. If an iPhone costs $1k, maybe you paid $100 to get it out the door, then you can still make hundreds of dollars selling it.
• DaniloDias 7y ago
  Many of these devices are unlocked in bulk and sold overseas. This deprives them of the payments that they expected for fronting the cost of the device.
  • Nextgrid 7y ago
    Selling the phone doesn't magically terminate the contract - they are still on the hook for all outstanding payments whether the phone is there or not. If fraudsters are doing this in bulk (and using false/stolen identities to sign up for the contracts in the first place) then the main problem here is inadequate identity checks & fraud protections during the initial purchase and not phone unlocking.
  • nathankunicki 7y ago
    I still don't understand how. Regardless of who ends up using the phone, surely the original purchaser/signer is still on the hook for the monthly payments? ie. If I buy a contract iPhone from AT&T then unlock and sell on the phone, that doesn't nullify the fact that I still owe AT&T $100 a month for 24 months, regardless of where the phone is?
    • toast0 7y ago
      If you buy an AT&T locked phone from a third party retailer, (ex Best Buy), you're expected to sign up for AT&T, but not under contract to do so; these phones are usually marketed for prepaid plans. AT&T will usually unlock them if you request it prior to using it on their network, but would likely not unlock them in bulk for exporters. I've purchased and used some of these when the price and timing was right and the frequencies aligned with my chosen network. It's more hassle than an unlocked phone, but sometimes the phone isn't available unlocked or locked to my chosen carrier. (More often, these phones are missing key frequencies, so not very useful on other networks)
    • kevinsundar 7y ago
      Yes the original purchaser is still on the hook for the payments. However in America today there are absolutely tons of people who are on the hook for payments that they simply do not make. In the tech world people are generally financially well off that they don't realize this. There are people that will just shrug at the fact they owe money to a company. At least if the phone is locked the carrier can just cut off service as an attempt to hopefully get payment as the phone is rendered useless without payment. However with unlocked phones theres no way for them to get the money they are owed. It's insanely expensive for them to go after each and every subcriber legally that doesnt pay. Remember, they are loaning these devices to subscribers who cannot pay the entire cost upfront with the hope they will pay them back over the course of the contract. Unlocking the phone gets rid of the one collateral they have. Thats the reason your account must be in good standing to unlock early with every major carrier and why some do credit checks.
• some_random 7y ago
  From the article >Fahd allegedly recruited AT&T “insiders” to install malware programs that gathered confidential information and submitted unlock requests using employee credentials via a remote server. Sounds like the malware was stealing creds to be used to unlock the phones.
• Causality1 7y ago
  It'd be interesting to have a word for software that penetrates security and breaks laws for benevolent purposes.
  • tux1968 7y ago
    Penben ?
  • userbinator 7y ago
    That is called a "crack". :-)
• 3xblah 7y ago
  It is only an indictment, not a conviction. Those are just allegations, not facts.