5 ms·

Can anybody explain how this works? like on a technical level?

umbs 7y ago
I'm going through this now, but following links, perhaps, answers your Q. Mesh Design: https://docs.nycmesh.net/networking/mesh/ https://docs.nycmesh.net/networking/mesh/ Supernode Architecture: https://docs.nycmesh.net/networking/supernode-architecture/ https://docs.nycmesh.net/networking/supernode-architecture/
na85 7y ago
From their docs, it looks like they're deploying a series of neighborhood-scale mesh networks, each with at least one "supernode" which acts as gateway to other supernodes and the meshes behind them, and possibly also to the internet. All the supernodes themselves are meshed together as well, each with its own private ASN.
- dustfinger 7y ago
  > and possibly also to the internet. That is an excellent point. Mesh nets may be vulnerable to being monitored over the internet. I have not read the article, but I hope these groups are building privacy into their protocol. I have wanted to build something like this for decade now. It is inspiring to hear about their success.
  - na85 7y ago
    Well, if you're using TLS it shouldn't matter if someone is monitoring, right?
    - dustfinger 7y ago
      Do these mesh networks support TLS? Even if they do support TLS, it might be possible for a node on the mesh to successfully carry out a SSL strip attack. Or aggregate leaked metadata from the requests that pass through it. I am not familiar with these mesh networks, there may be many lurking attack vectors if the creators are not particularly concerned with privacy / security.
      - cortesoft 7y ago
        TLS is layer 7, so any network will support it.
        dustfinger 7y ago
        I wasn't making the assumption that their mesh was based on TCP. I should really just read the article and linked materials, but I am trying to ingore that temptation since I am supposed to be working :-P
        na85 7y ago
        I think it's very poor etiquette to make assumptions about the contents of the article while advertising the fact you haven't read the article.
        dustfinger 7y ago
        By that line of reasoning it might be good etiquette to make assumptions about an article and the contents of an article provided that one does not include a disclaimer about not reading the article :-P I did make the disclaimer that I have not read the article for the sake of transparency and humility. I probably will later this week, but the only spare time I have has been spent responding to this thread :-P
        420codebro 7y ago
        What else would it support besides IP/TCP/UDP?
        cortesoft 7y ago
        I mean, it is being used to access the internet......
        dustfinger 7y ago
        An application can be designed to communicate over more than one protocol. There is more than one transport protocol used on the internet. For example, the UDP protocol may be used for for P2P / mesh networks. Applications that support UDP may also support TCP. TLS runs "on top of some reliable transport protocol (e.g., TCP). UDP is not a reliable transport protocol. There are also transport protocols other than TCP / UDP [1]. Anyway, if you are making your own mesh that does not require you to have access to an ISP, then maybe you make that mesh over something other than IP. If you did use something other than IP, that would not prevent any of the nodes from including IP in their networking stack. In that scenario, a human user of the mesh might believe that they are completely off the grid / internet, but surprise, all their traffic or leaked metadata is actually being aggregated over the internet because one of the nodes is connected. I mainly brought this up because it popped into my head and I thought it might make for an interesting discussion. Also, because I have thought about making a distributed mesh network that does not use IP where nodes communicate via HAM radio. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_layer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_layer
woah 7y ago
It works just like a wireless ISP, but it's installed by volunteers.

umbs 7y ago

I'm going through this now, but following links, perhaps, answers your Q. Mesh Design: https://docs.nycmesh.net/networking/mesh/ https://docs.nycmesh.net/networking/mesh/ Supernode Architecture: https://docs.nycmesh.net/networking/supernode-architecture/ https://docs.nycmesh.net/networking/supernode-architecture/

na85 7y ago

From their docs, it looks like they're deploying a series of neighborhood-scale mesh networks, each with at least one "supernode" which acts as gateway to other supernodes and the meshes behind them, and possibly also to the internet. All the supernodes themselves are meshed together as well, each with its own private ASN.

dustfinger 7y ago
> and possibly also to the internet. That is an excellent point. Mesh nets may be vulnerable to being monitored over the internet. I have not read the article, but I hope these groups are building privacy into their protocol. I have wanted to build something like this for decade now. It is inspiring to hear about their success.
- na85 7y ago
  Well, if you're using TLS it shouldn't matter if someone is monitoring, right?
  - dustfinger 7y ago
    Do these mesh networks support TLS? Even if they do support TLS, it might be possible for a node on the mesh to successfully carry out a SSL strip attack. Or aggregate leaked metadata from the requests that pass through it. I am not familiar with these mesh networks, there may be many lurking attack vectors if the creators are not particularly concerned with privacy / security.
    - cortesoft 7y ago
      TLS is layer 7, so any network will support it.
      - dustfinger 7y ago
        I wasn't making the assumption that their mesh was based on TCP. I should really just read the article and linked materials, but I am trying to ingore that temptation since I am supposed to be working :-P
        na85 7y ago
        I think it's very poor etiquette to make assumptions about the contents of the article while advertising the fact you haven't read the article.
        dustfinger 7y ago
        By that line of reasoning it might be good etiquette to make assumptions about an article and the contents of an article provided that one does not include a disclaimer about not reading the article :-P I did make the disclaimer that I have not read the article for the sake of transparency and humility. I probably will later this week, but the only spare time I have has been spent responding to this thread :-P
        420codebro 7y ago
        What else would it support besides IP/TCP/UDP?
        cortesoft 7y ago
        I mean, it is being used to access the internet......
        dustfinger 7y ago
        An application can be designed to communicate over more than one protocol. There is more than one transport protocol used on the internet. For example, the UDP protocol may be used for for P2P / mesh networks. Applications that support UDP may also support TCP. TLS runs "on top of some reliable transport protocol (e.g., TCP). UDP is not a reliable transport protocol. There are also transport protocols other than TCP / UDP [1]. Anyway, if you are making your own mesh that does not require you to have access to an ISP, then maybe you make that mesh over something other than IP. If you did use something other than IP, that would not prevent any of the nodes from including IP in their networking stack. In that scenario, a human user of the mesh might believe that they are completely off the grid / internet, but surprise, all their traffic or leaked metadata is actually being aggregated over the internet because one of the nodes is connected. I mainly brought this up because it popped into my head and I thought it might make for an interesting discussion. Also, because I have thought about making a distributed mesh network that does not use IP where nodes communicate via HAM radio. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_layer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_layer

woah 7y ago

It works just like a wireless ISP, but it's installed by volunteers.