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Some American web sites simply stop EU citizens from accessing their pages from Europe (nevermind that not all European countries are EU countries) "for legal r

by kebman 7y ago

Some American web sites simply stop EU citizens from accessing their pages from Europe (nevermind that not all European countries are EU countries) "for legal reasons regarding GDPR." So just because an EU citizen can access a web page that is hosted in the USA (or other place in the world), then EU law applies, apparently. I think that is dumb. When you visit the USA, American laws apply. Should be the same for web pages. Just my opinion. Yes, I might be a little salty for not getting to see that American web page because of GDPR legalities lol! Also, it would seem, that simply having a web page in the EU is now a liability. Well, that's one way to define progress I guess... Look, I get that there are some good things about the GDPR, and that computer privacy is important, but this is just getting too excessively authoritarian for me. I guess my biggest gripe with it, is that I never voted for it. Literally. I'm Norwegian. So it was just shoved into my face, and I had no say about it. In fact my country voted against the EU, but yet here we are. Sigh. I got two choices: Accept it or accept it. And bear the consequences if you don't. Double sigh.

flr03 7y ago
Applying GDPR based on the country hosting the webpage would be a massive loophole, nullifying the law completely. I think it works well as it is. If websites wants to access the EU market they have to comply to GDPR, but they are free not too... To bounce back on your point, as EU resident myself I haven't had any issue with accessing websites that would not want to implement GDPR.
- kebman 7y ago
  Except they're not "accessing EU markets." I'm a Norwegian, so I'm not in the EU. As such I never voted for EU laws to apply, and I feel they're being forced on me. Also, I'm the one who's technically accessing American markets, offered from the USA. So American laws should apply. Just my opinion. World leaders and companies don't care about individual freedom, so...
TheBranca18 7y ago
It's authoritarian that American web sites can't do the bare minimum to comply with privacy laws in the EU? I worked on some GDPR integration, on a publishing site no less (considering most of the time I noticed publishing sites being unable to be visited when I was overseas), and it took us all of one sprint to do so correctly. It's laziness not difficulty. It's also not the EU's fault that people in the United States (I say this as an American) are ignorant enough to associate Norway with the EU when it's not a member. The effort involved to actively block people from viewing websites could have been pointed towards GDPR integration. Edit: You know the real reason some American sites aren't complying? Because they looked at their European analytics and decided that it wasn't worth their effort.
- tzs 7y ago
  For small sites they might not want to deal with Article 27, which can cost hundreds of euros per year.
  - kennywinker 7y ago
    If they’re not able to pay hundreds of euros per year to access the european market, they’re not likely making much money off the euro market... so what’s the problem?
    - mpalczewski 7y ago
      Barrier to entry for indies.
      - angus-prune 7y ago
        It doesn't apply if you're only occasionally processing personal data or not doing so on a large scale. If you're regularly processing personal data of EU citizens on a large scale then you damn better be doing so securely and in compliance with EU law.
        7y ago
alpaca128 7y ago
Companies offering services(including websites) in the EU have to follow laws in the EU. Just like you can't open a shop in New York based on Norwegian law. It makes perfect sense to me. And if a website can't work without spying on me then I'm glad they're avoiding it by themselves.
- kebman 7y ago
  Well of course! The site is already in the USA. And as such, when I try to access it, I would expect American laws to apply. The problem here, is that the EU tries to regulate foreign web sites, hosted outside the EU -- even if they're not "marketing to the EU" -- for which my country isn't even a member! Of course, the company is in their full right to stop me from viewing their site, in fear of reprecussion from the EU and their draconian fines (though I think it's overly cautios to also stop non-EU-citizens from accessing the contents). That's bessides the point. The point is that it shouldn't be necessary to define opening a web site anywhere in the world as "marketing to EU citizens" (which I'm de jure not, though clearly de facto), when it's clearly hosted in another country. It's exactly like you mentioned; to employ Norwegian laws on a New York shop, which is of course ludicrous. But that's obviously the world we live in now, where innocent bystanders are robbed of their freedom for simply being associated with the wrong entity, for my own protection, I guess, even though I neither asked nor voted for it...
DanBC 7y ago
> I think that is dumb. It would be dumb if that was what the law says, but it doesn't say that at all. It says a company needs to be compliant if they operate from the EU or they market to the EU.
- kebman 7y ago
  Is making a web site, hosted in the USA, "marketing to the EU"? I don't think so. I think it's akin to opening a shop in New York. If you choose to go there, out of your own free will, then American laws should apply, not third party laws to a kafkaesque organization I neither voted for, nor want to partake in.
diminoten 7y ago
If my company doesn't operate in the EU, how can the EU fine me? Does extradition apply?
craigsmansion 7y ago
> In fact my country voted against the EU, but yet here we are And here you are, not in the EU. Or did you mean Norway should have pursued a "winner takes all" course hinging on a tiny margin, disenfranchised about half the population, and probably caused internal political and economic turmoil for years to come? If so, I have great news for you. There's an EU country who's about to do exactly that. What's even better, you can up sticks and move there right now, thanks to the EU (even though you're not in the EU), to witness the glory of the aftermath of such a historic decision. You might want to hurry though.
- kebman 7y ago
  I'm already not in the EU, thank you! :) Quite happy with that, weren't it for being treated like I am by American companies making catch-all filters in fear of the oh so scary EU fines.

by kebman 7y ago

flr03 7y ago

Applying GDPR based on the country hosting the webpage would be a massive loophole, nullifying the law completely. I think it works well as it is. If websites wants to access the EU market they have to comply to GDPR, but they are free not too... To bounce back on your point, as EU resident myself I haven't had any issue with accessing websites that would not want to implement GDPR.

kebman 7y ago
Except they're not "accessing EU markets." I'm a Norwegian, so I'm not in the EU. As such I never voted for EU laws to apply, and I feel they're being forced on me. Also, I'm the one who's technically accessing American markets, offered from the USA. So American laws should apply. Just my opinion. World leaders and companies don't care about individual freedom, so...

TheBranca18 7y ago

It's authoritarian that American web sites can't do the bare minimum to comply with privacy laws in the EU? I worked on some GDPR integration, on a publishing site no less (considering most of the time I noticed publishing sites being unable to be visited when I was overseas), and it took us all of one sprint to do so correctly. It's laziness not difficulty. It's also not the EU's fault that people in the United States (I say this as an American) are ignorant enough to associate Norway with the EU when it's not a member. The effort involved to actively block people from viewing websites could have been pointed towards GDPR integration. Edit: You know the real reason some American sites aren't complying? Because they looked at their European analytics and decided that it wasn't worth their effort.

tzs 7y ago
For small sites they might not want to deal with Article 27, which can cost hundreds of euros per year.
- kennywinker 7y ago
  If they’re not able to pay hundreds of euros per year to access the european market, they’re not likely making much money off the euro market... so what’s the problem?
  - mpalczewski 7y ago
    Barrier to entry for indies.
    - angus-prune 7y ago
      It doesn't apply if you're only occasionally processing personal data or not doing so on a large scale. If you're regularly processing personal data of EU citizens on a large scale then you damn better be doing so securely and in compliance with EU law.
      - 7y ago

alpaca128 7y ago

Companies offering services(including websites) in the EU have to follow laws in the EU. Just like you can't open a shop in New York based on Norwegian law. It makes perfect sense to me. And if a website can't work without spying on me then I'm glad they're avoiding it by themselves.

kebman 7y ago
Well of course! The site is already in the USA. And as such, when I try to access it, I would expect American laws to apply. The problem here, is that the EU tries to regulate foreign web sites, hosted outside the EU -- even if they're not "marketing to the EU" -- for which my country isn't even a member! Of course, the company is in their full right to stop me from viewing their site, in fear of reprecussion from the EU and their draconian fines (though I think it's overly cautios to also stop non-EU-citizens from accessing the contents). That's bessides the point. The point is that it shouldn't be necessary to define opening a web site anywhere in the world as "marketing to EU citizens" (which I'm de jure not, though clearly de facto), when it's clearly hosted in another country. It's exactly like you mentioned; to employ Norwegian laws on a New York shop, which is of course ludicrous. But that's obviously the world we live in now, where innocent bystanders are robbed of their freedom for simply being associated with the wrong entity, for my own protection, I guess, even though I neither asked nor voted for it...

DanBC 7y ago

> I think that is dumb. It would be dumb if that was what the law says, but it doesn't say that at all. It says a company needs to be compliant if they operate from the EU or they market to the EU.

kebman 7y ago
Is making a web site, hosted in the USA, "marketing to the EU"? I don't think so. I think it's akin to opening a shop in New York. If you choose to go there, out of your own free will, then American laws should apply, not third party laws to a kafkaesque organization I neither voted for, nor want to partake in.

diminoten 7y ago

If my company doesn't operate in the EU, how can the EU fine me? Does extradition apply?

craigsmansion 7y ago

> In fact my country voted against the EU, but yet here we are And here you are, not in the EU. Or did you mean Norway should have pursued a "winner takes all" course hinging on a tiny margin, disenfranchised about half the population, and probably caused internal political and economic turmoil for years to come? If so, I have great news for you. There's an EU country who's about to do exactly that. What's even better, you can up sticks and move there right now, thanks to the EU (even though you're not in the EU), to witness the glory of the aftermath of such a historic decision. You might want to hurry though.

kebman 7y ago
I'm already not in the EU, thank you! :) Quite happy with that, weren't it for being treated like I am by American companies making catch-all filters in fear of the oh so scary EU fines.