6 ms·

I live in Sardinia. We have both birth certificates and supercentenarians.

tyre 7y ago
From the first paragraph of the abstract: > In Italy, which has more uniform vital registration, remarkable longevity is instead predicted by low per capita incomes and a short life expectancy. > Finally, the designated ‘blue zones’ of Sardinia, Okinawa, and Ikaria corresponded to regions with low incomes, low literacy, high crime rate and short life expectancy relative to their national average.
- trumbitta2 7y ago
  The crime rate is low, the literacy level medium-high. I wonder if any of the authors ever came to Sardinia.
  - tyre 7y ago
    Do you have citations for this? They are specifically pointing out the "blue zones" where a high percentage of supercentenarians live. It's possible that the average literacy of Sardinia is separate from these pockets. I mean I'm guessing the authors didn't just sit around and say, "hmm, I wonder what the literacy rates are in Sardinia? Let's say low." I guess it's possible though.
    - gpderetta 7y ago
      The article does not provide citation for Sardinian literally rates either (they make a claim only for some of the Japanese numbers). For Sardinia they only claim poverty (with a qualitative, non quantitative claim) and life expectancy which, if I'm reading the ISTAT tables correctly, they got spectacularly wrong. Also there are no blue zones within Sardinia. The demographic data is the for the all the provinces of the island.
  - JPLeRouzic 7y ago
    From Wikipedia "According to the ISTAT census of 2001, the literacy rate in Sardinia among people below 64 years old is 99.5 percent. " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sardinia#Education https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sardinia#Education
    - jobigoud 7y ago
      You need the literacy rate from the time the supercentenarians were in their 40's or something. Or of people over a certain age like 80. And compate with the rest of the country.
    - perl4ever 7y ago
      What's the population of supercentenarians in Sardinia who are under 64 years old?
      - zb 7y ago
        Higher than you'd think, apparently.
- mytailorisrich 7y ago
  I don't think lower income is necessarily strange. For example, it seems that as people get richer their diet becomes less healthy (too much quantity, too much meat, too much processed food, etc). So there seems to be a sweet spot for healthy diet between "starving poor" and "decadent rich", at least when as long as 'traditional' diets survive.
  - georgeburdell 7y ago
    Did you read the article? There is a clear statistical anomaly centered about 10 years before reliable birth records were introduced. You are ex post facto rationalizing the longevity of a region for where there is evidence of age-related fraud.
    - mytailorisrich 7y ago
      Thank you for your nice reply. I was making a general point independent of any fraud or lack of records.
    - dang 7y ago
      "Please don't comment on whether someone read an article. "Did you even read the article? It mentions that" can be shortened to "The article mentions that."" https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - gpderetta 7y ago
      I did read the article, and the anomaly only exists (or at least is shown) only for US data.
- socialist_coder 7y ago
  I didn't really understand what the point was there - are they saying it's because of fraud? Or a real thing?
  - guan 7y ago
    I think they are implying that it could be fraud, but since there are birth certificates available, you couldn’t commit this fraud by simply making up a birth date. So a fraudulent supercentenarian would likely have assumed the identity of someone older, perhaps to claim a pension earlier. As for the correlations, low incomes would provide a motive for age pension fraud. Short life expectancy being correlated with more supercentenarians suggests it’s not because people in those areas are naturally healthier.
  - jobigoud 7y ago
    Yes, they are saying that fraud is a more likely explanation for the phenomenon of blue zones.

tyre 7y ago

From the first paragraph of the abstract: > In Italy, which has more uniform vital registration, remarkable longevity is instead predicted by low per capita incomes and a short life expectancy. > Finally, the designated ‘blue zones’ of Sardinia, Okinawa, and Ikaria corresponded to regions with low incomes, low literacy, high crime rate and short life expectancy relative to their national average.

trumbitta2 7y ago
The crime rate is low, the literacy level medium-high. I wonder if any of the authors ever came to Sardinia.
- tyre 7y ago
  Do you have citations for this? They are specifically pointing out the "blue zones" where a high percentage of supercentenarians live. It's possible that the average literacy of Sardinia is separate from these pockets. I mean I'm guessing the authors didn't just sit around and say, "hmm, I wonder what the literacy rates are in Sardinia? Let's say low." I guess it's possible though.
  - gpderetta 7y ago
    The article does not provide citation for Sardinian literally rates either (they make a claim only for some of the Japanese numbers). For Sardinia they only claim poverty (with a qualitative, non quantitative claim) and life expectancy which, if I'm reading the ISTAT tables correctly, they got spectacularly wrong. Also there are no blue zones within Sardinia. The demographic data is the for the all the provinces of the island.
- JPLeRouzic 7y ago
  From Wikipedia "According to the ISTAT census of 2001, the literacy rate in Sardinia among people below 64 years old is 99.5 percent. " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sardinia#Education https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sardinia#Education
  - jobigoud 7y ago
    You need the literacy rate from the time the supercentenarians were in their 40's or something. Or of people over a certain age like 80. And compate with the rest of the country.
  - perl4ever 7y ago
    What's the population of supercentenarians in Sardinia who are under 64 years old?
    - zb 7y ago
      Higher than you'd think, apparently.
mytailorisrich 7y ago
I don't think lower income is necessarily strange. For example, it seems that as people get richer their diet becomes less healthy (too much quantity, too much meat, too much processed food, etc). So there seems to be a sweet spot for healthy diet between "starving poor" and "decadent rich", at least when as long as 'traditional' diets survive.
- georgeburdell 7y ago
  Did you read the article? There is a clear statistical anomaly centered about 10 years before reliable birth records were introduced. You are ex post facto rationalizing the longevity of a region for where there is evidence of age-related fraud.
  - mytailorisrich 7y ago
    Thank you for your nice reply. I was making a general point independent of any fraud or lack of records.
  - dang 7y ago
    "Please don't comment on whether someone read an article. "Did you even read the article? It mentions that" can be shortened to "The article mentions that."" https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - gpderetta 7y ago
    I did read the article, and the anomaly only exists (or at least is shown) only for US data.
socialist_coder 7y ago
I didn't really understand what the point was there - are they saying it's because of fraud? Or a real thing?
- guan 7y ago
  I think they are implying that it could be fraud, but since there are birth certificates available, you couldn’t commit this fraud by simply making up a birth date. So a fraudulent supercentenarian would likely have assumed the identity of someone older, perhaps to claim a pension earlier. As for the correlations, low incomes would provide a motive for age pension fraud. Short life expectancy being correlated with more supercentenarians suggests it’s not because people in those areas are naturally healthier.
- jobigoud 7y ago
  Yes, they are saying that fraud is a more likely explanation for the phenomenon of blue zones.