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Not only are paper ballots simple and effective, they can be mailed out 2 weeks ahead of time and people can vote with a laptop, at their leisure. Also, you do

Not only are paper ballots simple and effective, they can be mailed out 2 weeks ahead of time and people can vote with a laptop, at their leisure. Also, you don't have to store them for three months at a time with proof of custody, you can just scan them, or dump them once the election has been certified. Voting machines sound great but that it's solving a problem by doing things the same with tech.

habnds 7y ago
I think the laptops would defeat the purpose of the paper ballots?
- abathur 7y ago
  I think GP just means with a laptop available (i.e., the ability to research a bond initiative they weren't already aware of).
  - habnds 7y ago
    yeah nice
jfengel 7y ago
Voting by mail has an even more massive security hole, in that ballots can be stolen, or people coerced (or paid). To my knowledge that hasn't happened yet, either in Oregon or in absentee voting, but with the level of discourse being what it is, I suspect it could easily become a problem.
- jethro_tell 7y ago
  I hear this from time to time but a massive security hole is putting everything in one place on the internet. The coordination and effort required to go door to door stealing ballots out of mailboxes or taking van loads of ballots from a post office, in a day and age where every block has dozens of cameras. There is also a step where you get a code, and you can log in and see how that ballot voted. Think about the amount of money required to pay people to vote, say people will do it for $10, and everyone you ask that doesn't do it also keeps their mouth shut. You're talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars to influence state level elections and millions for country wide elections. The beauty of mail, is that while there are attack vectors, they are expensive, easily noticeable, and have a very high barrier to entry. On the other hand, say you have a perfect voting machine, I'm skeptical, but I'll give you that, it's certainly possible. Now, lets assume that they have to either be stored in a warehouse with armed guards, or reimaged every time they are used. There's a simple attack vector there of only one or two people you have to turn. This is the old crypto breaking with a pipe wrench vector, though cash money is probably just as easy. That is the same failure that paper has, but you have to go to hundreds of thousands of places to get that done. You can probably keep a couple people quite, but a few thousand? Paper by mail has a very high tamper barrier and is available now. States could do it in November
AnimalMuppet 7y ago
Where I come from, the voting machines create a paper with the votes, which the voter gets to review. That seems to have all the advantages of the paper ballots, with the electronic advantage of rapid totals. I would like to see spot checks - pick a few precincts at random, and compare the electronic totals to the paper.
- jethro_tell 7y ago
  the paper ballots via mail handle infrastructure and are counted by machine with spot checking. Also, you can go to the vote counting floor at any time and be part of the process. However you don't have to setup/store machines, and people can vote over a few days which means better access to everyone.

habnds 7y ago

I think the laptops would defeat the purpose of the paper ballots?

abathur 7y ago
I think GP just means with a laptop available (i.e., the ability to research a bond initiative they weren't already aware of).
- habnds 7y ago
  yeah nice

jfengel 7y ago

Voting by mail has an even more massive security hole, in that ballots can be stolen, or people coerced (or paid). To my knowledge that hasn't happened yet, either in Oregon or in absentee voting, but with the level of discourse being what it is, I suspect it could easily become a problem.

jethro_tell 7y ago
I hear this from time to time but a massive security hole is putting everything in one place on the internet. The coordination and effort required to go door to door stealing ballots out of mailboxes or taking van loads of ballots from a post office, in a day and age where every block has dozens of cameras. There is also a step where you get a code, and you can log in and see how that ballot voted. Think about the amount of money required to pay people to vote, say people will do it for $10, and everyone you ask that doesn't do it also keeps their mouth shut. You're talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars to influence state level elections and millions for country wide elections. The beauty of mail, is that while there are attack vectors, they are expensive, easily noticeable, and have a very high barrier to entry. On the other hand, say you have a perfect voting machine, I'm skeptical, but I'll give you that, it's certainly possible. Now, lets assume that they have to either be stored in a warehouse with armed guards, or reimaged every time they are used. There's a simple attack vector there of only one or two people you have to turn. This is the old crypto breaking with a pipe wrench vector, though cash money is probably just as easy. That is the same failure that paper has, but you have to go to hundreds of thousands of places to get that done. You can probably keep a couple people quite, but a few thousand? Paper by mail has a very high tamper barrier and is available now. States could do it in November

AnimalMuppet 7y ago

Where I come from, the voting machines create a paper with the votes, which the voter gets to review. That seems to have all the advantages of the paper ballots, with the electronic advantage of rapid totals. I would like to see spot checks - pick a few precincts at random, and compare the electronic totals to the paper.

jethro_tell 7y ago
the paper ballots via mail handle infrastructure and are counted by machine with spot checking. Also, you can go to the vote counting floor at any time and be part of the process. However you don't have to setup/store machines, and people can vote over a few days which means better access to everyone.