4 ms·

As a European, it boggles my mind how there isn’t any for of proper verification on voters identity in many US states.

by thepangolino 7y ago

azinman2 7y ago
This is a feature not a bug. Fraud is rare, but barriers to minorities and the poor having say are a real concern.
- TylerE 7y ago
  I don’t really buy this. This is more an artifact of the US (insanely) not having any form of national ID.
  - hdfbdtbcdg 7y ago
    Plenty of countries have no national photo ID. UK, Norway and Denmark to name three in EU.
  - acollins1331 7y ago
    What's so great about a national ID except more government control?
  - azinman2 7y ago
    It’s not for you to buy. This is a well studied, well analyzed area because the GOP wants voter ID laws to reduce minorities and the poor at the polls. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-we-know-about-voter-id-laws/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-we-know-about-vote...
    - TylerE 7y ago
      Oh I know that. To be clear what I don’t buy is voter ID having a suppressive effect iff we had an actual national ID
- colordrops 7y ago
  Why don't minorities and poor have IDs?
  - esyir 7y ago
    Cause there's sizable opposition to government issued IDs. IMO, it's bloody retarded that this feature is still non-present in the US, resulting in all the pseudo ids like driver's licenses and SSNs.
  - azinman2 7y ago
    Not everyone has a car, and if you don’t have a car, then you probably don’t have a passport, and if you don’t have a car or passport, then you likely don’t have a valid photo ID. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-we-know-about-voter-id-laws/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-we-know-about-vote...
toomanybeersies 7y ago
That's normal in New Zealand as well. I can vote with no form of ID. Requiring voter ID disenfranchises marginalised and poor voters, who may not be able to obtain ID easily. I know several people who have no form of government issued ID. It's different in countries like Germany and France, where compulsory national ID is a thing. Rates of fraud and abuse are low enough that this isn't an issue. Technically I could go and vote in somebody else's name, and hope they also didn't vote, and I most likely wouldn't get caught. But if they did vote as well, then the double-vote would be noticed (people have have been caught casting multiple votes in the past) and would be investigated.
- thatoneuser 7y ago
  "Rates of fraud and abuse are low enough that this isn't an issue." How could one possibly defend this claim? If fraud and abuse were successfully committed, no one would be any the wiser. In the last two decades in the US, both parties have claimed to be the victims of voter fraud. Both have semi-legitimate claims. You cannot tell me an insecure network is intrinsically secure. That's a lie.
- zfgnu 7y ago
  Marginalised and poor voters exist in Europe and they have an ID card like anybody else. Having yours done could be free, if you're so inclined.
  - danpalmer 7y ago
    Just because ID is free does not make it universally accessible. If the office that hands out ID cards is only open 9-5 Mon-Fri, for example, a voter who must work during this time and can't afford to miss work may not be able to get ID.
  - pjc50 7y ago
    The problem is that the system would be run by racist state governments who would construct the system in the worst possible way. (Not a conjecture, this was actually evidence in one of the various voter ID lawsuits; the state government had constructed a table with impact assessments of various approaches, then picked the one with the worst impact)
newaccoutnas 7y ago
We don't need ID in the UK, just turn up.
- danpalmer 7y ago
  While this is true, it's a little disingenuous with regards to safe elections. In the UK you must pre-register for a single voting location, and then when you turn up to vote they cross your name off so you can't come in again.
  - deleted 7y ago
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  - deleted 7y ago
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  - newaccoutnas 7y ago
    Sure but getting on the electoral register (to my knowledge) requires no ID either. I think this is a big part as to why postal voting fraud happens.
    - danpalmer 7y ago
      It doesn't require ID but is verified against other records and against the electoral register in other regions, i.e. you can't register in two different places. When housemates have moved out I have received letters asking me to re-confirm who is living in the house for the electoral register. > I think this is a big part as to why postal voting fraud happens. It might happen, but it is exceptionally rare. The impact of introducing voter ID laws would cause a far larger decrease in election validity due to voter suppression than postal voting fraud causes.

As a European, it boggles my mind how there isn’t any for of proper verification on voters identity in many US states.

azinman2 7y ago

This is a feature not a bug. Fraud is rare, but barriers to minorities and the poor having say are a real concern.

TylerE 7y ago
I don’t really buy this. This is more an artifact of the US (insanely) not having any form of national ID.
- hdfbdtbcdg 7y ago
  Plenty of countries have no national photo ID. UK, Norway and Denmark to name three in EU.
- acollins1331 7y ago
  What's so great about a national ID except more government control?
- azinman2 7y ago
  It’s not for you to buy. This is a well studied, well analyzed area because the GOP wants voter ID laws to reduce minorities and the poor at the polls. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-we-know-about-voter-id-laws/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-we-know-about-vote...
  - TylerE 7y ago
    Oh I know that. To be clear what I don’t buy is voter ID having a suppressive effect iff we had an actual national ID
colordrops 7y ago
Why don't minorities and poor have IDs?
- esyir 7y ago
  Cause there's sizable opposition to government issued IDs. IMO, it's bloody retarded that this feature is still non-present in the US, resulting in all the pseudo ids like driver's licenses and SSNs.
- azinman2 7y ago
  Not everyone has a car, and if you don’t have a car, then you probably don’t have a passport, and if you don’t have a car or passport, then you likely don’t have a valid photo ID. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-we-know-about-voter-id-laws/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-we-know-about-vote...

toomanybeersies 7y ago

That's normal in New Zealand as well. I can vote with no form of ID. Requiring voter ID disenfranchises marginalised and poor voters, who may not be able to obtain ID easily. I know several people who have no form of government issued ID. It's different in countries like Germany and France, where compulsory national ID is a thing. Rates of fraud and abuse are low enough that this isn't an issue. Technically I could go and vote in somebody else's name, and hope they also didn't vote, and I most likely wouldn't get caught. But if they did vote as well, then the double-vote would be noticed (people have have been caught casting multiple votes in the past) and would be investigated.

thatoneuser 7y ago
"Rates of fraud and abuse are low enough that this isn't an issue." How could one possibly defend this claim? If fraud and abuse were successfully committed, no one would be any the wiser. In the last two decades in the US, both parties have claimed to be the victims of voter fraud. Both have semi-legitimate claims. You cannot tell me an insecure network is intrinsically secure. That's a lie.
zfgnu 7y ago
Marginalised and poor voters exist in Europe and they have an ID card like anybody else. Having yours done could be free, if you're so inclined.
- danpalmer 7y ago
  Just because ID is free does not make it universally accessible. If the office that hands out ID cards is only open 9-5 Mon-Fri, for example, a voter who must work during this time and can't afford to miss work may not be able to get ID.
- pjc50 7y ago
  The problem is that the system would be run by racist state governments who would construct the system in the worst possible way. (Not a conjecture, this was actually evidence in one of the various voter ID lawsuits; the state government had constructed a table with impact assessments of various approaches, then picked the one with the worst impact)

newaccoutnas 7y ago

We don't need ID in the UK, just turn up.

danpalmer 7y ago
While this is true, it's a little disingenuous with regards to safe elections. In the UK you must pre-register for a single voting location, and then when you turn up to vote they cross your name off so you can't come in again.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- newaccoutnas 7y ago
  Sure but getting on the electoral register (to my knowledge) requires no ID either. I think this is a big part as to why postal voting fraud happens.
  - danpalmer 7y ago
    It doesn't require ID but is verified against other records and against the electoral register in other regions, i.e. you can't register in two different places. When housemates have moved out I have received letters asking me to re-confirm who is living in the house for the electoral register. > I think this is a big part as to why postal voting fraud happens. It might happen, but it is exceptionally rare. The impact of introducing voter ID laws would cause a far larger decrease in election validity due to voter suppression than postal voting fraud causes.