7 ms·

Suburb in the sky: how Jakartans built an entire village on top of a mall

101 points by charlysl 7y ago

Deimorz 7y ago
Decently interesting article (more of an interesting subject than the article itself), but I hate these current trends in article titles. There's absolutely nothing in this article about how they built it.
- chmod775 7y ago
  They would just have to drop the "How" to make it accurate. Seems like a common mistake. Common enough that I now just ignore certain words when parsing titles.
aaron695 7y ago
Not cheap, for the rich - https://www.jakarta-apartment.net/category/apartment/cosmo-park/ https://www.jakarta-apartment.net/category/apartment/cosmo-p... Don't know why the article has no pics with cars in it since all the townhouses have car parks. Interesting to know what the PM 2.5 is.
- veidr 7y ago
  PM 2.5 is particulate matter (in the air) with diameter of less than 2.5 micrometers. I only know this because the Tokyo weather reports on TV include the PM 2.5 forecast for tomorrow as well (it seems to mostly blow over from China, although there must be domestic sources as well). Very heavy PM 2.5 can cause disruptions like schoolkids being kept indoors... from this, I've deduced it is probably harmful to health, or at least presumed to be so. Finally, masks that can filter out PM 2.5 can be easily purchased from webstores, but none of them are comfortable to ride a bicycle or walk around all day in. Now you know as much as I do. :)
  - veidr 7y ago
    Oh what the PM 2.5 is, right, lol. Well I will leave my answer for the other guy who hadn't heard of PM 2.5. As for the PM 2.5 level in Jakarta, well... not... so good... https://aqicn.org/city/jakarta/ https://aqicn.org/city/jakarta/
- pandler 7y ago
  For the lazy, the selling price listed in there is about $385,000 USD.
- BubRoss 7y ago
  Why did you think it would be cheap?
  - env123 7y ago
    Because it's a village, not a city
    - BubRoss 7y ago
      How does that make a difference? It's just something to jazz up the clickbait. Did you think these would be grass huts? Nothing said anything about being cheap.
    - lallysingh 7y ago
      It's a townhouse in a major city.
papa-whisky 7y ago
Not really a 'village' like the one in the article, but I recently discovered that there's a row of townhouses on top of a shopping centre in central Melbourne: https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-37.8256146,144.9495821,168a,35y,39.5t/data=!3m1!1e3 https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-37.8256146,144.9495821,168a...
- grahamel 7y ago
  there is a similar thing in Brighton where there is a whole block of flats built above (presumably at the same time) as a multistory car park when you park there it does look like they were just dropped on top https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/Brighton/@50.8225466,-0.1475139,79m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x48758509f6294167:0x9cc6af7a727d0ef9!8m2!3d50.82253!4d-0.137163 https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/Brighton/@50.8225466,-0...
INTPenis 7y ago
Given the track record of improvised solutions in Asia I wonder as a layman if the building engineers gave the green light for this with good conscience. I mean the mall was clearly built first, with a certain structural integrity in mind. And then an entire village was built on top of it.
- lawlessone 7y ago
  " Cosmo Park is one of two such developments in Jakarta by the Indonesian property developer the Agung Podomoro Group, and was built according to regulations. The second is above the Mall of Indonesia in the city’s north." Sounds like it was all built together.
jonballant 7y ago
This was quiet interesting to hear the reactions of locals who live in cosmo park. An interesting concept.
blunte 7y ago
I guess relative to other options in Jakara, Cosmo Park is quite nice. However, the air quality in the city is so bad from Monday morning until Saturday afternoon that I cannot imagine jogging or doing other outdoor activities. The air burns the throat and smells like fire and exhaust (especially from the millions of 2-cycle engine scooters with no emissions systems). Like other cities with terrible air, Jakarta will have to do something significant to become more livable; otherwise, local lifespans will dive (are diving, but will become obvious) over the next 20 years.
ahmedfromtunis 7y ago
Is this for lease or can people buy these houses? If they do buy them, what does that even mean? Do they own the land? And what happens if the mall people decide that it is no longer profitable? I mean, I really love the idea to live there, but there are so many questions that the article didn't answer!
- marapuru 7y ago
  From what I know most houses in Indonesia can be bought without actually owning the land. So I doubt they own the land on these houses. Next to that, there is a huge leasing and lending market in Indonesia. So I would guess that these houses are bought with a mortgage but they don't own the land.
codeisawesome 7y ago
Wow this is so cool, looks like something from Altered Carbon or some sci-fi video game!
sksksk 7y ago
There used to be similar housing above the arndale shopping centre (which got removed after the bombing in 96) https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-13378696 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-13378696
9nGQluzmnq3M 7y ago
Suburbs in the sky are unusual because they're not very space-efficient, but fortress-like apartments-atop-mall complexes are quite common in Jakarta. Here's one of the first, the Ciputra Mall complex (mall, hotel, apartments), which any visitor to Jakarta will have seen because it's right next to the highway from the airport: https://travel.detik.com/travel-news/d-2146644/selama-banjir-hotel-ciputra-tidak-terima-pesan-kamar- https://travel.detik.com/travel-news/d-2146644/selama-banjir... And its newer, flashier cousins Ciputra Worlds 1 (built), 2 (u/c) and 3 (planned): http://www.ciputraworldjakarta.com/cwj1/ http://www.ciputraworldjakarta.com/cwj1/
PhasmaFelis 7y ago
I feel like the full-size two-lane roads go well past clever and into fetishizing suburbia. The roads and car ports take up a huge amount of precious space and force you to drive up and down 10 stories of ramp every time, instead of parking lower in the garage (possibly with reserved spaces, the place is expensive enough for that) and taking the elevator. I guess it's handy when moving in/out, but again, for the cost, they could provide workers with motorized carts to move your stuff for you. Just seems really impractical with no upside, all to make you feel like you're having an "authentic suburban experience" or something. Especially note the way the road on the right side of the pic runs right up to the dropoff, well past the last carport entrance, with sidewalk and road markings all the way. They're selling the image of a chunk of suburbia sliced out and airlifted into the city.

101 points by charlysl 7y ago

Decently interesting article (more of an interesting subject than the article itself), but I hate these current trends in article titles. There's absolutely nothing in this article about how they built it.

chmod775 7y ago
They would just have to drop the "How" to make it accurate. Seems like a common mistake. Common enough that I now just ignore certain words when parsing titles.

aaron695 7y ago

Not cheap, for the rich - https://www.jakarta-apartment.net/category/apartment/cosmo-park/ https://www.jakarta-apartment.net/category/apartment/cosmo-p... Don't know why the article has no pics with cars in it since all the townhouses have car parks. Interesting to know what the PM 2.5 is.

veidr 7y ago
PM 2.5 is particulate matter (in the air) with diameter of less than 2.5 micrometers. I only know this because the Tokyo weather reports on TV include the PM 2.5 forecast for tomorrow as well (it seems to mostly blow over from China, although there must be domestic sources as well). Very heavy PM 2.5 can cause disruptions like schoolkids being kept indoors... from this, I've deduced it is probably harmful to health, or at least presumed to be so. Finally, masks that can filter out PM 2.5 can be easily purchased from webstores, but none of them are comfortable to ride a bicycle or walk around all day in. Now you know as much as I do. :)
- veidr 7y ago
  Oh what the PM 2.5 is, right, lol. Well I will leave my answer for the other guy who hadn't heard of PM 2.5. As for the PM 2.5 level in Jakarta, well... not... so good... https://aqicn.org/city/jakarta/ https://aqicn.org/city/jakarta/
pandler 7y ago
For the lazy, the selling price listed in there is about $385,000 USD.
BubRoss 7y ago
Why did you think it would be cheap?
- env123 7y ago
  Because it's a village, not a city
  - BubRoss 7y ago
    How does that make a difference? It's just something to jazz up the clickbait. Did you think these would be grass huts? Nothing said anything about being cheap.
  - lallysingh 7y ago
    It's a townhouse in a major city.

papa-whisky 7y ago

Not really a 'village' like the one in the article, but I recently discovered that there's a row of townhouses on top of a shopping centre in central Melbourne: https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-37.8256146,144.9495821,168a,35y,39.5t/data=!3m1!1e3 https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-37.8256146,144.9495821,168a...

grahamel 7y ago
there is a similar thing in Brighton where there is a whole block of flats built above (presumably at the same time) as a multistory car park when you park there it does look like they were just dropped on top https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/Brighton/@50.8225466,-0.1475139,79m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x48758509f6294167:0x9cc6af7a727d0ef9!8m2!3d50.82253!4d-0.137163 https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/Brighton/@50.8225466,-0...

INTPenis 7y ago

Given the track record of improvised solutions in Asia I wonder as a layman if the building engineers gave the green light for this with good conscience. I mean the mall was clearly built first, with a certain structural integrity in mind. And then an entire village was built on top of it.

lawlessone 7y ago
" Cosmo Park is one of two such developments in Jakarta by the Indonesian property developer the Agung Podomoro Group, and was built according to regulations. The second is above the Mall of Indonesia in the city’s north." Sounds like it was all built together.

jonballant 7y ago

This was quiet interesting to hear the reactions of locals who live in cosmo park. An interesting concept.

blunte 7y ago

I guess relative to other options in Jakara, Cosmo Park is quite nice. However, the air quality in the city is so bad from Monday morning until Saturday afternoon that I cannot imagine jogging or doing other outdoor activities. The air burns the throat and smells like fire and exhaust (especially from the millions of 2-cycle engine scooters with no emissions systems). Like other cities with terrible air, Jakarta will have to do something significant to become more livable; otherwise, local lifespans will dive (are diving, but will become obvious) over the next 20 years.

ahmedfromtunis 7y ago

Is this for lease or can people buy these houses? If they do buy them, what does that even mean? Do they own the land? And what happens if the mall people decide that it is no longer profitable? I mean, I really love the idea to live there, but there are so many questions that the article didn't answer!

marapuru 7y ago
From what I know most houses in Indonesia can be bought without actually owning the land. So I doubt they own the land on these houses. Next to that, there is a huge leasing and lending market in Indonesia. So I would guess that these houses are bought with a mortgage but they don't own the land.

codeisawesome 7y ago

Wow this is so cool, looks like something from Altered Carbon or some sci-fi video game!

sksksk 7y ago

There used to be similar housing above the arndale shopping centre (which got removed after the bombing in 96) https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-13378696 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-13378696

9nGQluzmnq3M 7y ago

Suburbs in the sky are unusual because they're not very space-efficient, but fortress-like apartments-atop-mall complexes are quite common in Jakarta. Here's one of the first, the Ciputra Mall complex (mall, hotel, apartments), which any visitor to Jakarta will have seen because it's right next to the highway from the airport: https://travel.detik.com/travel-news/d-2146644/selama-banjir-hotel-ciputra-tidak-terima-pesan-kamar- https://travel.detik.com/travel-news/d-2146644/selama-banjir... And its newer, flashier cousins Ciputra Worlds 1 (built), 2 (u/c) and 3 (planned): http://www.ciputraworldjakarta.com/cwj1/ http://www.ciputraworldjakarta.com/cwj1/

PhasmaFelis 7y ago

I feel like the full-size two-lane roads go well past clever and into fetishizing suburbia. The roads and car ports take up a huge amount of precious space and force you to drive up and down 10 stories of ramp every time, instead of parking lower in the garage (possibly with reserved spaces, the place is expensive enough for that) and taking the elevator. I guess it's handy when moving in/out, but again, for the cost, they could provide workers with motorized carts to move your stuff for you. Just seems really impractical with no upside, all to make you feel like you're having an "authentic suburban experience" or something. Especially note the way the road on the right side of the pic runs right up to the dropoff, well past the last carport entrance, with sidewalk and road markings all the way. They're selling the image of a chunk of suburbia sliced out and airlifted into the city.