7 ms·

If I recall the argument for butterfly switch was to make the laptop even thinner as it uses less space than scissors

by tmlee 7y ago

lostgame 7y ago
E.G., massively favour form over function to the customer's detriment. There is nothing wrong with the 2015's size and feel. It does not need to be lighter than that. Losing basics like an internal HDMI port and SD card slot are not acceptable for me as a media professional - period - for whatever tradeoff. I don't want to have to dig some adapter out of my bag because the manufacturer of the laptops I've used for almost two decades has suddenly gone daft, prioritizing thinness over the device actually functioning, even as effectively as the previous units, that I have ardently supported for years (I still use an iMac G4 every day for cartoons and random drawings in Flash.) Don't even get me started on the SSD/RAM being soldered to the Logic Board, either - I'm not even sure if other manufacturers are doing this, but to a girl who used to build her own towers from scratch, is not particularly wealthy, but also not particularly poor, and has counted on upgrading her devices for years to get value out of them when she can later afford it - this feels like an actual slap in the face. I would personally never purchase a personal computer that I would e.g. do development on, that I could not remove the hard drive of myself, even if just for data recovery purposes.
- pcr910303 7y ago
  Ok, then you don’t need the new MBPs. There are people that need them, get the most out of the least weight, frown at the bad stabilities of the 2015 era switches (and yes, I love the butterflies), not using the fn keys, e.g. I get that, you’re not the target market. That doesn’t justify reverting everything the new MBP has. I just can’t understand why all HNers get from ‘I hate the MBP’ to ‘Apple is wrong!’. There is a reason why the MBPs from '16 -'18 is one of the most successful ones; the touchbar, the butterfly keyboards, soldered SSDs are there for a reason.
  - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
    > Ok, then you don’t need the new MBPs. Please suggest an alternative that runs macOS and has up-to-date internals. > There is a reason why the MBPs from '16 -'18 is one of the most successful ones They are? That's news to me. Anecdotally, I almost exclusively see older Macs, but I don't know how much of that is due to dislike of the new models vs upgrades being expensive in general.
    - viraptor 7y ago
      Depends on a definition of "successful". My previous work mbp failed post warranty, but since the board replacement (Apple's idea of "repair") would cost close a new unit, I've been told to just order the new one. And mbp's the least bad choice I had for hardware, so I guess numbers are up due to non-repairability - success?
    - SyneRyder 7y ago
      News to me too. The '16-'19 MacBook Pros coincide with the end of Mac sales growth and the beginning of declining Mac market share: https://cdn.macrumors.com/article-new/2019/07/gartner_2Q19_trend.jpg https://cdn.macrumors.com/article-new/2019/07/gartner_2Q19_t... https://www.macrumors.com/2019/07/11/q2-2019-pc-shipments/ https://www.macrumors.com/2019/07/11/q2-2019-pc-shipments/
  - yedpodtrzitko 7y ago
    No one is taking this from you. The point is that these features (thinness/touchbar/whatever) are not an _option_ now. Before you could pick Air if you preferred a thin machine, Pro in case you wanted all the ports. Everyone got their own. Now that's not a thing anymore.
    - lostgame 7y ago
      Exactly. In fact, the lineup was so absurd that the for years the 'MacBook' was lighter than the 'MacBook Air' - and more expensive - all of the logic from Jobs' original 'pro desktop/consumer desktop - pro laptop/consumer laptop' ideology has gone far out the window.
- vonseel 7y ago
  Here’s a tip for avoiding adapters: just buy a cable that has USB-C on one end instead. Or get a simple-ass dongle that has SD card USB ports on one end and USB-C on the other. These cost like $10, literally, without HDMI of course. All this said, I miss the keyboard of older MbPs when working on my 2017 MBP. Enough that if I’m docked I use a mechanical keyboard OR lately I’ve been using an Apple wireless keyboard set directly in front of my laptop, ha ha.
  - auslander 7y ago
    > .. and USB-C on the other. In my Satechi dongle, that other USB-C port is for charging only, not true USB. Sigh.
  - afandian 7y ago
    I have a box with USB B, miniusb, microusb and usb-c cables. I doubt these can be recycled to any acceptable degree. This "just buy the latest cable" is actively harmful.
- patrickfatrick 7y ago
  This is all highly subjective yet you state it as fact. There’s nothing wrong with prioritizing portability in a laptop. I for one prioritize usability over almost anything else and Apple’s ethos fits pretty squarely with that, between the portability, the OS, and the trackpads. Sometimes form _is_ function.
  - PunksATawnyFill 7y ago
    There is no additional function afforded by making the laptop thinner through the implementation of a defective keyboard and reduced battery volume. Nice strawman, but portability has long since been achieved. You say you prioritize usability but then defend an idiotic and regressive design that impedes usability so disgracefully that even Apple has had to admit failure. The trackpads are another failure, being way too big and thus suffering from spurious contacts from the heels of your hands. Why didn't Apple at least make the giant trackpads useful by having the Pencil work on them?
    - randomsearch 7y ago
      Lighter is better for me, as I carry my laptop all the time. The laptop I had before my Mac was really heavy, bulky, caused back pain and limited what else I could carry. Lighter the better please.
      - nesadi 7y ago
        I like how the modern solution for weak back/core musculature is to buy an expensive laptop that excessively sacrifices repairability and upgradability.
        randomsearch 7y ago
        Please don’t troll on HN. There are plenty of other places to trash.
        nesadi 7y ago

If I recall the argument for butterfly switch was to make the laptop even thinner as it uses less space than scissors

by tmlee 7y ago

If I recall the argument for butterfly switch was to make the laptop even thinner as it uses less space than scissors

E.G., massively favour form over function to the customer's detriment. There is nothing wrong with the 2015's size and feel. It does not need to be lighter than that. Losing basics like an internal HDMI port and SD card slot are not acceptable for me as a media professional - period - for whatever tradeoff. I don't want to have to dig some adapter out of my bag because the manufacturer of the laptops I've used for almost two decades has suddenly gone daft, prioritizing thinness over the device actually functioning, even as effectively as the previous units, that I have ardently supported for years (I still use an iMac G4 every day for cartoons and random drawings in Flash.) Don't even get me started on the SSD/RAM being soldered to the Logic Board, either - I'm not even sure if other manufacturers are doing this, but to a girl who used to build her own towers from scratch, is not particularly wealthy, but also not particularly poor, and has counted on upgrading her devices for years to get value out of them when she can later afford it - this feels like an actual slap in the face. I would personally never purchase a personal computer that I would e.g. do development on, that I could not remove the hard drive of myself, even if just for data recovery purposes.

pcr910303 7y ago
Ok, then you don’t need the new MBPs. There are people that need them, get the most out of the least weight, frown at the bad stabilities of the 2015 era switches (and yes, I love the butterflies), not using the fn keys, e.g. I get that, you’re not the target market. That doesn’t justify reverting everything the new MBP has. I just can’t understand why all HNers get from ‘I hate the MBP’ to ‘Apple is wrong!’. There is a reason why the MBPs from '16 -'18 is one of the most successful ones; the touchbar, the butterfly keyboards, soldered SSDs are there for a reason.
- Wowfunhappy 7y ago
  > Ok, then you don’t need the new MBPs. Please suggest an alternative that runs macOS and has up-to-date internals. > There is a reason why the MBPs from '16 -'18 is one of the most successful ones They are? That's news to me. Anecdotally, I almost exclusively see older Macs, but I don't know how much of that is due to dislike of the new models vs upgrades being expensive in general.
  - viraptor 7y ago
    Depends on a definition of "successful". My previous work mbp failed post warranty, but since the board replacement (Apple's idea of "repair") would cost close a new unit, I've been told to just order the new one. And mbp's the least bad choice I had for hardware, so I guess numbers are up due to non-repairability - success?
  - SyneRyder 7y ago
    News to me too. The '16-'19 MacBook Pros coincide with the end of Mac sales growth and the beginning of declining Mac market share: https://cdn.macrumors.com/article-new/2019/07/gartner_2Q19_trend.jpg https://cdn.macrumors.com/article-new/2019/07/gartner_2Q19_t... https://www.macrumors.com/2019/07/11/q2-2019-pc-shipments/ https://www.macrumors.com/2019/07/11/q2-2019-pc-shipments/
- yedpodtrzitko 7y ago
  No one is taking this from you. The point is that these features (thinness/touchbar/whatever) are not an _option_ now. Before you could pick Air if you preferred a thin machine, Pro in case you wanted all the ports. Everyone got their own. Now that's not a thing anymore.
  - lostgame 7y ago
    Exactly. In fact, the lineup was so absurd that the for years the 'MacBook' was lighter than the 'MacBook Air' - and more expensive - all of the logic from Jobs' original 'pro desktop/consumer desktop - pro laptop/consumer laptop' ideology has gone far out the window.
vonseel 7y ago
Here’s a tip for avoiding adapters: just buy a cable that has USB-C on one end instead. Or get a simple-ass dongle that has SD card USB ports on one end and USB-C on the other. These cost like $10, literally, without HDMI of course. All this said, I miss the keyboard of older MbPs when working on my 2017 MBP. Enough that if I’m docked I use a mechanical keyboard OR lately I’ve been using an Apple wireless keyboard set directly in front of my laptop, ha ha.
- auslander 7y ago
  > .. and USB-C on the other. In my Satechi dongle, that other USB-C port is for charging only, not true USB. Sigh.
- afandian 7y ago
  I have a box with USB B, miniusb, microusb and usb-c cables. I doubt these can be recycled to any acceptable degree. This "just buy the latest cable" is actively harmful.
patrickfatrick 7y ago
This is all highly subjective yet you state it as fact. There’s nothing wrong with prioritizing portability in a laptop. I for one prioritize usability over almost anything else and Apple’s ethos fits pretty squarely with that, between the portability, the OS, and the trackpads. Sometimes form _is_ function.
- PunksATawnyFill 7y ago
  There is no additional function afforded by making the laptop thinner through the implementation of a defective keyboard and reduced battery volume. Nice strawman, but portability has long since been achieved. You say you prioritize usability but then defend an idiotic and regressive design that impedes usability so disgracefully that even Apple has had to admit failure. The trackpads are another failure, being way too big and thus suffering from spurious contacts from the heels of your hands. Why didn't Apple at least make the giant trackpads useful by having the Pencil work on them?
  - randomsearch 7y ago
    Lighter is better for me, as I carry my laptop all the time. The laptop I had before my Mac was really heavy, bulky, caused back pain and limited what else I could carry. Lighter the better please.
    - nesadi 7y ago
      I like how the modern solution for weak back/core musculature is to buy an expensive laptop that excessively sacrifices repairability and upgradability.
      - randomsearch 7y ago
        Please don’t troll on HN. There are plenty of other places to trash.
        nesadi 7y ago