8 ms·

I'll just refrain from purchasing Apple hardware with this keyboard design. Hopefully they release the new laptops without it, I'm overdue for an upgrade.

by Canada 7y ago

jordanthoms 7y ago
Rumours are pointing towards September for a 16" MBP with a new design and new keyboard. Hopefully that does happen, my 2013 MBP could use an upgrade also
- lostgame 7y ago
  I'm still on a 2011 17" with 16GB of RAM and two 1TB internal SSD's (one went where the optical drive would have) - until they release a similarly-sized model without the God-awful experience of the Butterly keyboard. I have to use a 2017 15" Touch Bar MacBook Pro at work and I want to hurl it across the wall when I'm not using my external keyboard, and I don't see many people in the office not using external keyboards for them.
  - GordonS 7y ago
    I have a 2016 13" MBP with touchbar. No idea what the keyboard mechanism is, but it's absolutely horrible - there is hardly any key travel, it frequently misses key presses, and there is one key in particular that I occasionally have to press 4-5 times before it registers. It's been like this since I got it. I took it to an Apple Store not long after that, but they said it was OK, and all this was perfectly normal.. The touchbar is also just unbelievably bad - just give me my Escape and function keys back, dammit! What am absolutely loathsome device! I'm mainly a Windows user, and this was my first ever Mac. It's also the last, unless I need one for work, in which case I'll still do everything I can on Windows.
- asdff 7y ago
  Rumours also point towards a new macbook air with scissor keys this fall.
nextos 7y ago
I wonder about the reason to depart from scissor switches (still seen on e.g. current Magic Keyboard and discontinued MacBook Air). Those are quite more reliable. Mines have only fallen apart after 5 years of daily intense use. A great thing of these keyboards is that travel is small, but not too small, making latency great compared to regular mechanical keyboards.
- tmlee 7y ago
  If I recall the argument for butterfly switch was to make the laptop even thinner as it uses less space than scissors
  - lostgame 7y ago
    E.G., massively favour form over function to the customer's detriment. There is nothing wrong with the 2015's size and feel. It does not need to be lighter than that. Losing basics like an internal HDMI port and SD card slot are not acceptable for me as a media professional - period - for whatever tradeoff. I don't want to have to dig some adapter out of my bag because the manufacturer of the laptops I've used for almost two decades has suddenly gone daft, prioritizing thinness over the device actually functioning, even as effectively as the previous units, that I have ardently supported for years (I still use an iMac G4 every day for cartoons and random drawings in Flash.) Don't even get me started on the SSD/RAM being soldered to the Logic Board, either - I'm not even sure if other manufacturers are doing this, but to a girl who used to build her own towers from scratch, is not particularly wealthy, but also not particularly poor, and has counted on upgrading her devices for years to get value out of them when she can later afford it - this feels like an actual slap in the face. I would personally never purchase a personal computer that I would e.g. do development on, that I could not remove the hard drive of myself, even if just for data recovery purposes.
    - pcr910303 7y ago
      Ok, then you don’t need the new MBPs. There are people that need them, get the most out of the least weight, frown at the bad stabilities of the 2015 era switches (and yes, I love the butterflies), not using the fn keys, e.g. I get that, you’re not the target market. That doesn’t justify reverting everything the new MBP has. I just can’t understand why all HNers get from ‘I hate the MBP’ to ‘Apple is wrong!’. There is a reason why the MBPs from '16 -'18 is one of the most successful ones; the touchbar, the butterfly keyboards, soldered SSDs are there for a reason.
sschueller 7y ago
I would refrain from purchasing an apple permanently unless they undo what they are doing with the T2 chip. They are making them unrepairable by anyone other than Apple. Even if you think you will get it fixed under warranty you may be told there is water damage even if there isn't any [1] and then you're left with a 3k paper weight. [1] https://youtu.be/gi9en4I-tjA https://youtu.be/gi9en4I-tjA
- randomsearch 7y ago
  People don’t care about who repairs what. They care a lot more about their product have a serious design flaw.
  - kd913 7y ago
    Then they probably shouldn't have bought any macbook for the last 10 years. According to many Louis Rossman video, nearly every design had some serious design flaws.
    - thelittleone 7y ago
      I’ve been having MBP exclusively for 12 years. It was quite rare for a HW issue before the touchbar generation. My touchbar 15” MBP has been entirely replaced once. Had everything but the bottom case (which I believe has no components) replaced twice. Screen and logic board replaced twice. Power AC adapter died. Keys stuck frequently. If you buy an Apple MacBook you should consider twice unless you live near an actual Apple Store. Repairs in Bali (no Apple store in Indonesia) take 6+ weeks. I’ve taken 7 international return flights to have mine repaired because it’s my primary “professional” work device. Another thing that’s a strange Hw decision. You can no longer remove the SSD and place it in a USB adapter. Apple put some proprietary socket on the MB so they can access the SSD in case of logic board failure. It failed on both occasions they tried to use it for me.
      - bluedino 7y ago
        >> I’ve been having MBP exclusively for 12 years. It was quite rare for a W issue before the touchbar generation. What? Almost each generation of MBP has had serious problems. Both NVIDIA and ATI graphics that would die, bad SSD's, defetive batteries, failing motherboars....

I'll just refrain from purchasing Apple hardware with this keyboard design. Hopefully they release the new laptops without it, I'm overdue for an upgrade.

by Canada 7y ago

I'll just refrain from purchasing Apple hardware with this keyboard design. Hopefully they release the new laptops without it, I'm overdue for an upgrade.

jordanthoms 7y ago

Rumours are pointing towards September for a 16" MBP with a new design and new keyboard. Hopefully that does happen, my 2013 MBP could use an upgrade also

lostgame 7y ago
I'm still on a 2011 17" with 16GB of RAM and two 1TB internal SSD's (one went where the optical drive would have) - until they release a similarly-sized model without the God-awful experience of the Butterly keyboard. I have to use a 2017 15" Touch Bar MacBook Pro at work and I want to hurl it across the wall when I'm not using my external keyboard, and I don't see many people in the office not using external keyboards for them.
- GordonS 7y ago
  I have a 2016 13" MBP with touchbar. No idea what the keyboard mechanism is, but it's absolutely horrible - there is hardly any key travel, it frequently misses key presses, and there is one key in particular that I occasionally have to press 4-5 times before it registers. It's been like this since I got it. I took it to an Apple Store not long after that, but they said it was OK, and all this was perfectly normal.. The touchbar is also just unbelievably bad - just give me my Escape and function keys back, dammit! What am absolutely loathsome device! I'm mainly a Windows user, and this was my first ever Mac. It's also the last, unless I need one for work, in which case I'll still do everything I can on Windows.
asdff 7y ago
Rumours also point towards a new macbook air with scissor keys this fall.

nextos 7y ago

I wonder about the reason to depart from scissor switches (still seen on e.g. current Magic Keyboard and discontinued MacBook Air). Those are quite more reliable. Mines have only fallen apart after 5 years of daily intense use. A great thing of these keyboards is that travel is small, but not too small, making latency great compared to regular mechanical keyboards.

tmlee 7y ago
If I recall the argument for butterfly switch was to make the laptop even thinner as it uses less space than scissors
- lostgame 7y ago
  E.G., massively favour form over function to the customer's detriment. There is nothing wrong with the 2015's size and feel. It does not need to be lighter than that. Losing basics like an internal HDMI port and SD card slot are not acceptable for me as a media professional - period - for whatever tradeoff. I don't want to have to dig some adapter out of my bag because the manufacturer of the laptops I've used for almost two decades has suddenly gone daft, prioritizing thinness over the device actually functioning, even as effectively as the previous units, that I have ardently supported for years (I still use an iMac G4 every day for cartoons and random drawings in Flash.) Don't even get me started on the SSD/RAM being soldered to the Logic Board, either - I'm not even sure if other manufacturers are doing this, but to a girl who used to build her own towers from scratch, is not particularly wealthy, but also not particularly poor, and has counted on upgrading her devices for years to get value out of them when she can later afford it - this feels like an actual slap in the face. I would personally never purchase a personal computer that I would e.g. do development on, that I could not remove the hard drive of myself, even if just for data recovery purposes.
  - pcr910303 7y ago
    Ok, then you don’t need the new MBPs. There are people that need them, get the most out of the least weight, frown at the bad stabilities of the 2015 era switches (and yes, I love the butterflies), not using the fn keys, e.g. I get that, you’re not the target market. That doesn’t justify reverting everything the new MBP has. I just can’t understand why all HNers get from ‘I hate the MBP’ to ‘Apple is wrong!’. There is a reason why the MBPs from '16 -'18 is one of the most successful ones; the touchbar, the butterfly keyboards, soldered SSDs are there for a reason.

sschueller 7y ago

I would refrain from purchasing an apple permanently unless they undo what they are doing with the T2 chip. They are making them unrepairable by anyone other than Apple. Even if you think you will get it fixed under warranty you may be told there is water damage even if there isn't any [1] and then you're left with a 3k paper weight. [1] https://youtu.be/gi9en4I-tjA https://youtu.be/gi9en4I-tjA

randomsearch 7y ago
People don’t care about who repairs what. They care a lot more about their product have a serious design flaw.
- kd913 7y ago
  Then they probably shouldn't have bought any macbook for the last 10 years. According to many Louis Rossman video, nearly every design had some serious design flaws.
  - thelittleone 7y ago
    I’ve been having MBP exclusively for 12 years. It was quite rare for a HW issue before the touchbar generation. My touchbar 15” MBP has been entirely replaced once. Had everything but the bottom case (which I believe has no components) replaced twice. Screen and logic board replaced twice. Power AC adapter died. Keys stuck frequently. If you buy an Apple MacBook you should consider twice unless you live near an actual Apple Store. Repairs in Bali (no Apple store in Indonesia) take 6+ weeks. I’ve taken 7 international return flights to have mine repaired because it’s my primary “professional” work device. Another thing that’s a strange Hw decision. You can no longer remove the SSD and place it in a USB adapter. Apple put some proprietary socket on the MB so they can access the SSD in case of logic board failure. It failed on both occasions they tried to use it for me.
    - bluedino 7y ago
      >> I’ve been having MBP exclusively for 12 years. It was quite rare for a W issue before the touchbar generation. What? Almost each generation of MBP has had serious problems. Both NVIDIA and ATI graphics that would die, bad SSD's, defetive batteries, failing motherboars....