4 ms·

Some real-time payment infrastructures to compare to: UK - Faster Payments Service (2008) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faster_Payments_Service https://en.wiki

Some real-time payment infrastructures to compare to: UK - Faster Payments Service (2008) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faster_Payments_Service https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faster_Payments_Service EU - SEPA Instant Credit (2017) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area#SEPA_Instant_Credit_Transfer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area#SEPA... Australia - New Payments Platform (2018) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Payments_Platform https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Payments_Platform

ggm 7y ago
NPP has been hugely beneficial for p2p. I've used it and now trust it implicitly, as a mechanism. Being stuck in cheque clearing bank settlement delay is a royal pain. International funds clearance and KYC remain problems.
- aussiegeek 7y ago
  NPP is on it's way to being really handy, but it still sucks that I have to hack things to force NPP for some payments (ie. CommBank will only use NPP for PayID payments, but banks like Up will use NPP for transfers for a BSB/Account number if the receiving banks supports it, not all banks are fully on the platform yet) The downside is my teenagers can now shake me down for cash remotely
  - natal60 7y ago
    NPP is a joke. There's a limit of $1,000 for transfers. It doesn't always work if you don't use a PayID. Compare that to Faster Payments which easily works with 250k with or without a PayID
    - stephen_g 7y ago
      That transaction limit is only a bank imposed limitation - while out of the ones I checked, Commonwealth (and I assume some other) does have a $1K daily limit for personal accounts, various other banks appear to have higher limits or just use the regular transaction limit (which you can usually choose yourself).
    - ggm 7y ago
      If you regularly need to move 250k sums electronically inside the Australian economy, using this kind of mechanism, I'd love to know what you're doing. Only because I am nosy: I cannot conceive of transactions on this level which demand NPP class behaviour.
      - zwkrt 7y ago
        I think the idea is that it is very common to transact in amounts >$1000. Rent, car payment, direct deposit, etc.
      - obtino 7y ago
        > If you regularly need to move 250k sums electronically inside the Australian economy. Paying sub-contractors, settling property transactions, the list goes on. When buying a house, I remember having to withdraw $60k in cash from my savings bank account and walking over and depositing it in another because it would take the other bank 3 working days to clear a bank-cheque. Some banks do offer an over-night inter-bank mechanism, but surprisingly CommBank does not.
        ggm 7y ago
        I don't think it was designed for what you want to do. Interesting problem: fast efficient payment of GST-incurring and other taxable money in a low doc manner.
    - obtino 7y ago
      > NPP is a joke. There's a limit of $1,000 for transfers. It doesn't always work if you don't use a PayID. ANZ have a $5000 limit. It's down to the bank to enforce this.
    - JauntyHatAngle 7y ago
      I'm fairly sure this is to ease it into use. I would assume that as it becomes more ubiquitous (many banks don't even have it yet) the limit will increase.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
trazire 7y ago
Also, despite not technically being a governmental operation, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Payments_Interface https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Payments_Interface, from India.
- os7borne 7y ago
  Came here to say this. UPI is quite revolutionary. Launched in 2016 [0], UPI handles 882.3 million transactions with ~USD 21 billion in transaction value [1], as of July, 2019. UPI is designed to be a payment utility by National Payments Corporation of India (NPCI). NPCI is not a governmental organisation but is formed by a collective of 56 Indian Banks including 10 core banks [2]. [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Payments_Interface https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Payments_Interface [1] - https://www.medianama.com/2019/08/223-upi-transactions-grew-9-to-822-3m-in-july-2019-rs-146386-6-cr-transacted/ https://www.medianama.com/2019/08/223-upi-transactions-grew-... [2] - https://www.npci.org.in/about-us-background https://www.npci.org.in/about-us-background
digianarchist 7y ago
Hopefully Canada next and no, Interac isn't an equivalent service.
- thinkloop 7y ago
  Why isn't interac equivalent?
  - digianarchist 7y ago
    Interac is designed for consumer-to-consumer transactions and isn't automated like these systems.
josu 7y ago
Mexico - SPEI (2004) http://www.anterior.banxico.org.mx/sistemas-de-pago/servicios/sistema-de-pagos-electronicos-interbancarios-spei/interbanking-electronic-payme.html http://www.anterior.banxico.org.mx/sistemas-de-pago/servicio...
- close04 7y ago
  EU - TIPS (2018) https://www.ecb.europa.eu/paym/target/tips/html/index.en.html https://www.ecb.europa.eu/paym/target/tips/html/index.en.htm...
shamir 7y ago
Don't forget the best of them all India - UPI (2016) https://www.npci.org.in/product-overview/upi-product-overview https://www.npci.org.in/product-overview/upi-product-overvie...
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
scardine 7y ago
Brazil - Sistema de Pagamentos Brasileiro (Brazilian Payment System) 2002 https://www.bcb.gov.br/en/financialstability/paymentsystem https://www.bcb.gov.br/en/financialstability/paymentsystem > Guidelines for the Brazilian Instant Payments Ecosystem: The Brazilian instant payments ecosystem will have a flexible and open participation structure and will be similar to the existing interbank electronic funds transfer (TED)—with greater availability, speed, and simpler addressing of payments. The transactions will be performed in a simple and fast way to different beneficiaries. Moreover, the BCB (Brazilian Central Bank) will develop a single settlement infrastructure.
noneeeed 7y ago
While BACS' 24h clearing of interbank transfers was normally ok, FasterPayments really makes having multiple accounts split across bank's super convenient. My wife and I both have our own accounts with Barclays and joint accounts (and mortgage) with Nationwide, and I have a Monzo account for small day to day expenses. It takes me less than a minute to open the Barclays app, transfer some money to the joint account, and then open the Nationwide app to confirm the balance and do whatever I needed to do from there. Total money management game changer. I've done a four hop transfer from my savings to overpay the mortgage, in about three minutes.

ggm 7y ago

NPP has been hugely beneficial for p2p. I've used it and now trust it implicitly, as a mechanism. Being stuck in cheque clearing bank settlement delay is a royal pain. International funds clearance and KYC remain problems.

aussiegeek 7y ago
NPP is on it's way to being really handy, but it still sucks that I have to hack things to force NPP for some payments (ie. CommBank will only use NPP for PayID payments, but banks like Up will use NPP for transfers for a BSB/Account number if the receiving banks supports it, not all banks are fully on the platform yet) The downside is my teenagers can now shake me down for cash remotely
- natal60 7y ago
  NPP is a joke. There's a limit of $1,000 for transfers. It doesn't always work if you don't use a PayID. Compare that to Faster Payments which easily works with 250k with or without a PayID
  - stephen_g 7y ago
    That transaction limit is only a bank imposed limitation - while out of the ones I checked, Commonwealth (and I assume some other) does have a $1K daily limit for personal accounts, various other banks appear to have higher limits or just use the regular transaction limit (which you can usually choose yourself).
  - ggm 7y ago
    If you regularly need to move 250k sums electronically inside the Australian economy, using this kind of mechanism, I'd love to know what you're doing. Only because I am nosy: I cannot conceive of transactions on this level which demand NPP class behaviour.
    - zwkrt 7y ago
      I think the idea is that it is very common to transact in amounts >$1000. Rent, car payment, direct deposit, etc.
    - obtino 7y ago
      > If you regularly need to move 250k sums electronically inside the Australian economy. Paying sub-contractors, settling property transactions, the list goes on. When buying a house, I remember having to withdraw $60k in cash from my savings bank account and walking over and depositing it in another because it would take the other bank 3 working days to clear a bank-cheque. Some banks do offer an over-night inter-bank mechanism, but surprisingly CommBank does not.
      - ggm 7y ago
        I don't think it was designed for what you want to do. Interesting problem: fast efficient payment of GST-incurring and other taxable money in a low doc manner.
  - obtino 7y ago
    > NPP is a joke. There's a limit of $1,000 for transfers. It doesn't always work if you don't use a PayID. ANZ have a $5000 limit. It's down to the bank to enforce this.
  - JauntyHatAngle 7y ago
    I'm fairly sure this is to ease it into use. I would assume that as it becomes more ubiquitous (many banks don't even have it yet) the limit will increase.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

trazire 7y ago

Also, despite not technically being a governmental operation, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Payments_Interface https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Payments_Interface, from India.

os7borne 7y ago
Came here to say this. UPI is quite revolutionary. Launched in 2016 [0], UPI handles 882.3 million transactions with ~USD 21 billion in transaction value [1], as of July, 2019. UPI is designed to be a payment utility by National Payments Corporation of India (NPCI). NPCI is not a governmental organisation but is formed by a collective of 56 Indian Banks including 10 core banks [2]. [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Payments_Interface https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Payments_Interface [1] - https://www.medianama.com/2019/08/223-upi-transactions-grew-9-to-822-3m-in-july-2019-rs-146386-6-cr-transacted/ https://www.medianama.com/2019/08/223-upi-transactions-grew-... [2] - https://www.npci.org.in/about-us-background https://www.npci.org.in/about-us-background

digianarchist 7y ago

Hopefully Canada next and no, Interac isn't an equivalent service.

thinkloop 7y ago
Why isn't interac equivalent?
- digianarchist 7y ago
  Interac is designed for consumer-to-consumer transactions and isn't automated like these systems.

josu 7y ago

Mexico - SPEI (2004) http://www.anterior.banxico.org.mx/sistemas-de-pago/servicios/sistema-de-pagos-electronicos-interbancarios-spei/interbanking-electronic-payme.html http://www.anterior.banxico.org.mx/sistemas-de-pago/servicio...

close04 7y ago
EU - TIPS (2018) https://www.ecb.europa.eu/paym/target/tips/html/index.en.html https://www.ecb.europa.eu/paym/target/tips/html/index.en.htm...

shamir 7y ago

Don't forget the best of them all India - UPI (2016) https://www.npci.org.in/product-overview/upi-product-overview https://www.npci.org.in/product-overview/upi-product-overvie...

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

scardine 7y ago

Brazil - Sistema de Pagamentos Brasileiro (Brazilian Payment System) 2002 https://www.bcb.gov.br/en/financialstability/paymentsystem https://www.bcb.gov.br/en/financialstability/paymentsystem > Guidelines for the Brazilian Instant Payments Ecosystem: The Brazilian instant payments ecosystem will have a flexible and open participation structure and will be similar to the existing interbank electronic funds transfer (TED)—with greater availability, speed, and simpler addressing of payments. The transactions will be performed in a simple and fast way to different beneficiaries. Moreover, the BCB (Brazilian Central Bank) will develop a single settlement infrastructure.

noneeeed 7y ago

While BACS' 24h clearing of interbank transfers was normally ok, FasterPayments really makes having multiple accounts split across bank's super convenient. My wife and I both have our own accounts with Barclays and joint accounts (and mortgage) with Nationwide, and I have a Monzo account for small day to day expenses. It takes me less than a minute to open the Barclays app, transfer some money to the joint account, and then open the Nationwide app to confirm the balance and do whatever I needed to do from there. Total money management game changer. I've done a four hop transfer from my savings to overpay the mortgage, in about three minutes.