5 ms·

So don’t sell on Amazon. There are tons of other options. Amazon is merely the largest, not the only.

Alupis 7y ago
Is that really still an option the bigger Amazon gets? At what point is it a defacto monopoly? A huge share of people shop exclusively on Amazon, particularly when compared to 10 years ago. There's no sign it'll stop growing any time soon. Choosing not to, or being prohibited from selling on Amazon effectively blocks you out of a significant share of ecommerce sales. There's no way around that.
- mikeash 7y ago
  It takes more than “a significant share.” Being excluded from Walmart blocks you from a significant share of retail sales but they’re not a monopoly. If the argument is that Amazon might become a monopoly in coming years, I can totally see that. But I don’t see how it is one now.
  - shard972 7y ago
    nice dodge, how about answering the question, how do you define a monopolly?
- bko 7y ago
  Considering that e-commerce sales only make up about 12% of retail sales in the US, I think Amazon and e-commerce would have to get a lot bigger. > The first quarter 2019 e-commerce estimate increased 12.4 percent (±1.1%) from the first quarter of 2018 while total retail sales increased 2.7 percent (±0.4%) in the same period. E-commerce sales in the first quarter of 2019 accounted for 10.2 percent of total sales I don't think e-commerce is the right market. Most companies selling widgets just want to get their goods in consumer's hands. They don't really care how. Amazon makes it easy and does a lot of the work but sets the terms. Otherwise they'd be going after that 87.6% that's not done through e-commerce. [0] https://www.census.gov/retail/mrts/www/data/pdf/ec_current.pdf https://www.census.gov/retail/mrts/www/data/pdf/ec_current.p...
- arkh 7y ago
  > A huge share of people shop exclusively on Amazon People should ask why. Is it the prices? No. Is it the discoverability? No. It's because when you have a problem with whatever you bought you get reimbursed. No "call Samsung hotline", no "we'll add this totally not free warranty package in your cart".
  - thedaemon 7y ago
    You are incorrect. As someone who has used Amazon, I have never returned anything or been reimbursed.
  - dwyerm 7y ago
    Agreed. The prices are meh. The discoverability is terrible and seemingly getting worse. I even feel like the customer service is also screaming downhill. Still, I'm nearly exclusive with Amazon because I give them money and they send me product, and there's no friction in that exchange. Consider for comparison my recent experience purchasing a wedding gift from Bed Bath and Beyond. They had done everything right to capture my purchase: They hosted the wedding registry, kept the new couple's address hidden, and by not allowing me to select "I'm buying this somewhere else" made it difficult for me to get the item cheaper from another retailer. Despite all of that, I still abandoned the cart and came back to Amazon. BB&B requires Verified By Visa, and I require my credit card provider to not be stupid about security, so my card was declined with no recourse. Mind you, Amazon has declined my payment before, too. But they only did it once, more-than paid for their mistake, and haven't troubled me since. Amazon is a monopoly like Visa and Mastercard are monopolies. They enrich themselves while facilitating commerce. While I'm uncomfortable with that power they hold, I wouldn't want to be without it.
  - c0vfefe 7y ago
    Anecdotally, I'd say yes, it's mostly the discoverability, plus things like Prime shipping, reviews, the generally good UI, etc.
jnbiche 7y ago
> So don’t sell on Amazon. Whether or not any individual sells on Amazon has absolutely nothing to do with their anti-competitive practices.
- mikeash 7y ago
  That's true, but the viability of other options limits their ability to set prices or exclude competition.
- kortilla 7y ago
  But it has absolutely everything to do with determination of monopoly status. If a seller can simply stop selling on amazon and sell with Walmart/EBay/whatever instead, amazon clearly has no monopoly. Same on the customer side.
  - jnbiche 7y ago
    Fair point. I still think Amazon is engaging in anti-competitive practices (by just selling on the same marketplace they maintain). But my argument was poor.
headsoup 7y ago
And what if, more and more, the products you want are only on Amazon, because of the deals made or conditions set by them?
- mikeash 7y ago
  That would be really bad, but we're very far from that point.
  - headsoup 7y ago
    Depends on what products you want doesn't it? I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I've noticed an increasing tendency to not be able to find some products online outside of Amazon, or there is a significant price difference.
    - kortilla 7y ago
      If your example is amazon is the only place to buy products and at a super cheap price, it sounds like amazon is great for the consumer for that product. Even ignoring that, do you have an example of products that don’t exist outside of amazon (other than amazon labeled products).
    - mikeash 7y ago
      What products are those? I haven’t seen them but maybe I’ve just missed them.

Is that really still an option the bigger Amazon gets? At what point is it a defacto monopoly? A huge share of people shop exclusively on Amazon, particularly when compared to 10 years ago. There's no sign it'll stop growing any time soon. Choosing not to, or being prohibited from selling on Amazon effectively blocks you out of a significant share of ecommerce sales. There's no way around that.

mikeash 7y ago
It takes more than “a significant share.” Being excluded from Walmart blocks you from a significant share of retail sales but they’re not a monopoly. If the argument is that Amazon might become a monopoly in coming years, I can totally see that. But I don’t see how it is one now.
- shard972 7y ago
  nice dodge, how about answering the question, how do you define a monopolly?
bko 7y ago
Considering that e-commerce sales only make up about 12% of retail sales in the US, I think Amazon and e-commerce would have to get a lot bigger. > The first quarter 2019 e-commerce estimate increased 12.4 percent (±1.1%) from the first quarter of 2018 while total retail sales increased 2.7 percent (±0.4%) in the same period. E-commerce sales in the first quarter of 2019 accounted for 10.2 percent of total sales I don't think e-commerce is the right market. Most companies selling widgets just want to get their goods in consumer's hands. They don't really care how. Amazon makes it easy and does a lot of the work but sets the terms. Otherwise they'd be going after that 87.6% that's not done through e-commerce. [0] https://www.census.gov/retail/mrts/www/data/pdf/ec_current.pdf https://www.census.gov/retail/mrts/www/data/pdf/ec_current.p...
arkh 7y ago
> A huge share of people shop exclusively on Amazon People should ask why. Is it the prices? No. Is it the discoverability? No. It's because when you have a problem with whatever you bought you get reimbursed. No "call Samsung hotline", no "we'll add this totally not free warranty package in your cart".
- thedaemon 7y ago
  You are incorrect. As someone who has used Amazon, I have never returned anything or been reimbursed.
- dwyerm 7y ago
  Agreed. The prices are meh. The discoverability is terrible and seemingly getting worse. I even feel like the customer service is also screaming downhill. Still, I'm nearly exclusive with Amazon because I give them money and they send me product, and there's no friction in that exchange. Consider for comparison my recent experience purchasing a wedding gift from Bed Bath and Beyond. They had done everything right to capture my purchase: They hosted the wedding registry, kept the new couple's address hidden, and by not allowing me to select "I'm buying this somewhere else" made it difficult for me to get the item cheaper from another retailer. Despite all of that, I still abandoned the cart and came back to Amazon. BB&B requires Verified By Visa, and I require my credit card provider to not be stupid about security, so my card was declined with no recourse. Mind you, Amazon has declined my payment before, too. But they only did it once, more-than paid for their mistake, and haven't troubled me since. Amazon is a monopoly like Visa and Mastercard are monopolies. They enrich themselves while facilitating commerce. While I'm uncomfortable with that power they hold, I wouldn't want to be without it.
- c0vfefe 7y ago
  Anecdotally, I'd say yes, it's mostly the discoverability, plus things like Prime shipping, reviews, the generally good UI, etc.

jnbiche 7y ago

> So don’t sell on Amazon. Whether or not any individual sells on Amazon has absolutely nothing to do with their anti-competitive practices.

mikeash 7y ago
That's true, but the viability of other options limits their ability to set prices or exclude competition.
kortilla 7y ago
But it has absolutely everything to do with determination of monopoly status. If a seller can simply stop selling on amazon and sell with Walmart/EBay/whatever instead, amazon clearly has no monopoly. Same on the customer side.
- jnbiche 7y ago
  Fair point. I still think Amazon is engaging in anti-competitive practices (by just selling on the same marketplace they maintain). But my argument was poor.

headsoup 7y ago

And what if, more and more, the products you want are only on Amazon, because of the deals made or conditions set by them?

mikeash 7y ago
That would be really bad, but we're very far from that point.
- headsoup 7y ago
  Depends on what products you want doesn't it? I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I've noticed an increasing tendency to not be able to find some products online outside of Amazon, or there is a significant price difference.
  - kortilla 7y ago
    If your example is amazon is the only place to buy products and at a super cheap price, it sounds like amazon is great for the consumer for that product. Even ignoring that, do you have an example of products that don’t exist outside of amazon (other than amazon labeled products).
  - mikeash 7y ago
    What products are those? I haven’t seen them but maybe I’ve just missed them.