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The justice's analogy in that case was bad, but otherwise it would have been a good argument. If speech is meant to directly lead to harm, it should be constra

The justice's analogy in that case was bad, but otherwise it would have been a good argument. If speech is meant to directly lead to harm, it should be constrained.

mrguyorama 7y ago
In that case, wouldn't it be more that it isn't allowed to yell fire in a crowded theater with the express purpose to cause injury during a stampede? Would doing so "just as a prank bro" still be protected under American precedent?
- rosser 7y ago
  I'm not a Constitutional or 1A scholar, but I believe the test remains whether the speech is substantially likely to result in "imminent lawless action". Whether you wanted people to get trampled, or just thought it was a lulz thing to do, exigently emptying a crowded room on false pretenses is probably going to yield some pretty lawless behavior. EDIT: Even so, that test was IIRC conceived as a means of measuring whether political speech — specifically, advocating the use of force or criminal behavior — was 1A-protected, so I really wonder whether this line of thought isn't moot.
stale2002 7y ago
I mean, I wouldn't use analogies that were originally created to target people who disagreed with the draft. Whether or not the analogy applies now, is irrelevant. It's history makes it a bad analogy. It'd be like saying stuff like "it's Ok to be white". It may be a true statement, but it was used by people who were trying to make racial attacks.
- lliamander 7y ago
  > I mean, I wouldn't use analogies that were originally created to target people who disagreed with the draft. > Whether or not the analogy applies now, is irrelevant. It's history makes it a bad analogy. I appreciate your motivation, but I just can't get behind this line of reasoning. For one thing, most people aren't aware of the history. For another, almost every good idea has a tainted history. (e.g. the golden rule. "Eh that? That's just something that Jesus guy said, and look how many people his followers killed in the crusades, witch-hunts, etc.") Lastly, it's just not a form of rational thinking. Obviously the connotations of our words matter, but unless we can separate the connotation from the denotation we have no hope of arriving at the truth.

The justice's analogy in that case was bad, but otherwise it would have been a good argument. If speech is meant to directly lead to harm, it should be constrained.

mrguyorama 7y ago

In that case, wouldn't it be more that it isn't allowed to yell fire in a crowded theater with the express purpose to cause injury during a stampede? Would doing so "just as a prank bro" still be protected under American precedent?

rosser 7y ago
I'm not a Constitutional or 1A scholar, but I believe the test remains whether the speech is substantially likely to result in "imminent lawless action". Whether you wanted people to get trampled, or just thought it was a lulz thing to do, exigently emptying a crowded room on false pretenses is probably going to yield some pretty lawless behavior. EDIT: Even so, that test was IIRC conceived as a means of measuring whether political speech — specifically, advocating the use of force or criminal behavior — was 1A-protected, so I really wonder whether this line of thought isn't moot.

stale2002 7y ago

I mean, I wouldn't use analogies that were originally created to target people who disagreed with the draft. Whether or not the analogy applies now, is irrelevant. It's history makes it a bad analogy. It'd be like saying stuff like "it's Ok to be white". It may be a true statement, but it was used by people who were trying to make racial attacks.

lliamander 7y ago
> I mean, I wouldn't use analogies that were originally created to target people who disagreed with the draft. > Whether or not the analogy applies now, is irrelevant. It's history makes it a bad analogy. I appreciate your motivation, but I just can't get behind this line of reasoning. For one thing, most people aren't aware of the history. For another, almost every good idea has a tainted history. (e.g. the golden rule. "Eh that? That's just something that Jesus guy said, and look how many people his followers killed in the crusades, witch-hunts, etc.") Lastly, it's just not a form of rational thinking. Obviously the connotations of our words matter, but unless we can separate the connotation from the denotation we have no hope of arriving at the truth.