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I’m old enough to remember when Howard Stern, as quaint as that seems today, was considered one of the greatest threats to civilization and had to be “de-platfo

I’m old enough to remember when Howard Stern, as quaint as that seems today, was considered one of the greatest threats to civilization and had to be “de-platformed” before he could successfully destroy society - and the reasoning they used against him was _exactly_ the same as this reasoning: “he, himself (8chan, itself) is not going out and doing horrible things, but he’s encouraging people to go out and do horrible things, so he (it) must be shut down”.

atonse 7y ago
Oh yea? Howard Stern was encouraging mass murder? Something that isn't, nor has EVER been protected speech?
- Donald 7y ago
  The call-in segments on Stern's show have been frequently used as a platform for extreme and fringe positions, including calls for violence. Through the mid 90s, these came from Stern himself, although he has matured and tempered with time. See these examples: https://nypost.com/2000/08/16/howard-stern-caller-busted-in-lieberman-death-threat/ https://nypost.com/2000/08/16/howard-stern-caller-busted-in-... (2000s; a caller threatens to kill Senator Lieberman on air) https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/665af0/til_that_howard_stern_mocked_selena_quintanilla/ https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/665af0/til_t... (Mid 90s; Stern plays gunshots during a Selena song) https://variety.com/2014/voices/columns/howard-sterns-white-supremacist-interview-suddenly-doesnt-look-so-funny-1201157977/ https://variety.com/2014/voices/columns/howard-sterns-white-... (Stern books the Overland Park Jewish Community Center shooter) https://www.howardstern.com/show/2016/10/24/ronnie-limo-driver-mund-makes-veiled-threats-against-brent-hatley-twitter/ https://www.howardstern.com/show/2016/10/24/ronnie-limo-driv... (2016 Twitter spat with implied threats of violence with Stern-affiliated staff)
jredwards 7y ago
I think there's a pretty big gap between making dick jokes and encouraging mass murder.
- commandlinefan 7y ago
  But not much gap between conflating allowing free speech and encouraging mass murder to conflating dick jokes (and having a KKK member as a frequent guest) and encouraging moral decay.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
nilkn 7y ago
I'm on the record here defending /r/The_Donald. I'm even on the record saying I didn't think it should be quarantined and that I don't think it should be banned in the future. It takes a lot for me to wonder if something actually should be censored. I certainly wouldn't have been on the side of censoring Howard Stern. Radicalizing terrorists to such an extent that they actually go through with it -- multiple times -- is extreme enough to make me wonder. The El Paso shooter's manifesto was posted on 8chan for a reason. The manifesto was written specifically for other potential shooters. It contains tips and advice. It explains the shooter's choice of gear and that he needed to use heat-resistant gloves because one of the guns he used was prone to overheating if fired rapidly. It encourages potential shooters to avoid heavily guarded areas and to avoid engaging with security personnel regardless of how confident they are. Throughout 8chan, I saw many posts subscribing to the general theory that racial violence has been accepted throughout most of human history and the only people who disapprove constitute a tiny little blip on the grand tapestry. The whole point of this ideology was to encourage people to commit acts of violence by indoctrinating them into the belief system that all their ancestors would not only have approved but would have done it themselves.
- mrguyorama 7y ago
  /r/The_Donald is not very far from the kind of hatred and prejudice used on 8chan. White supremacists use places like /r/The_Donald to "normalize" ideologies and move the overton window far enough from normal that the extremer places like explicit calls to violence on 8chan are now palatable. It's all part of the same pipeline.
  - Karunamon 7y ago
    Nonsense. The kind of hate and prejudice posted on 8chan /pol/ would be deleted in a heartbeat on T_D. The worst you can say about T_D is that they don't like Islam, and given the violence and regressiveness it promotes, I can't blame them.
  - malvosenior 7y ago
    This is the slippery slope that people worry about and why they fight against banning things like 8chan. First it's banning 8chan, then it's /r/The_Donald. What's next? Mass shooters are a problem that must be dealt with. Pretending that everything to the right of mainstream Democrats is a pipeline to mass shooters that must be silenced is the type of thing that radicalizes people. It's unduly oppressive and it dehumanizes people you may not happen to agree with.
kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
Stern was broadcasting on public airwaves where the FCC sets a low threshold for "public decency". This isn't really comparable.
idlewords 7y ago
Howard Stern landed on his feet.

atonse 7y ago

Oh yea? Howard Stern was encouraging mass murder? Something that isn't, nor has EVER been protected speech?

Donald 7y ago
The call-in segments on Stern's show have been frequently used as a platform for extreme and fringe positions, including calls for violence. Through the mid 90s, these came from Stern himself, although he has matured and tempered with time. See these examples: https://nypost.com/2000/08/16/howard-stern-caller-busted-in-lieberman-death-threat/ https://nypost.com/2000/08/16/howard-stern-caller-busted-in-... (2000s; a caller threatens to kill Senator Lieberman on air) https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/665af0/til_that_howard_stern_mocked_selena_quintanilla/ https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/665af0/til_t... (Mid 90s; Stern plays gunshots during a Selena song) https://variety.com/2014/voices/columns/howard-sterns-white-supremacist-interview-suddenly-doesnt-look-so-funny-1201157977/ https://variety.com/2014/voices/columns/howard-sterns-white-... (Stern books the Overland Park Jewish Community Center shooter) https://www.howardstern.com/show/2016/10/24/ronnie-limo-driver-mund-makes-veiled-threats-against-brent-hatley-twitter/ https://www.howardstern.com/show/2016/10/24/ronnie-limo-driv... (2016 Twitter spat with implied threats of violence with Stern-affiliated staff)

jredwards 7y ago

I think there's a pretty big gap between making dick jokes and encouraging mass murder.

commandlinefan 7y ago
But not much gap between conflating allowing free speech and encouraging mass murder to conflating dick jokes (and having a KKK member as a frequent guest) and encouraging moral decay.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

nilkn 7y ago

I'm on the record here defending /r/The_Donald. I'm even on the record saying I didn't think it should be quarantined and that I don't think it should be banned in the future. It takes a lot for me to wonder if something actually should be censored. I certainly wouldn't have been on the side of censoring Howard Stern. Radicalizing terrorists to such an extent that they actually go through with it -- multiple times -- is extreme enough to make me wonder. The El Paso shooter's manifesto was posted on 8chan for a reason. The manifesto was written specifically for other potential shooters. It contains tips and advice. It explains the shooter's choice of gear and that he needed to use heat-resistant gloves because one of the guns he used was prone to overheating if fired rapidly. It encourages potential shooters to avoid heavily guarded areas and to avoid engaging with security personnel regardless of how confident they are. Throughout 8chan, I saw many posts subscribing to the general theory that racial violence has been accepted throughout most of human history and the only people who disapprove constitute a tiny little blip on the grand tapestry. The whole point of this ideology was to encourage people to commit acts of violence by indoctrinating them into the belief system that all their ancestors would not only have approved but would have done it themselves.

mrguyorama 7y ago
/r/The_Donald is not very far from the kind of hatred and prejudice used on 8chan. White supremacists use places like /r/The_Donald to "normalize" ideologies and move the overton window far enough from normal that the extremer places like explicit calls to violence on 8chan are now palatable. It's all part of the same pipeline.
- Karunamon 7y ago
  Nonsense. The kind of hate and prejudice posted on 8chan /pol/ would be deleted in a heartbeat on T_D. The worst you can say about T_D is that they don't like Islam, and given the violence and regressiveness it promotes, I can't blame them.
- malvosenior 7y ago
  This is the slippery slope that people worry about and why they fight against banning things like 8chan. First it's banning 8chan, then it's /r/The_Donald. What's next? Mass shooters are a problem that must be dealt with. Pretending that everything to the right of mainstream Democrats is a pipeline to mass shooters that must be silenced is the type of thing that radicalizes people. It's unduly oppressive and it dehumanizes people you may not happen to agree with.

kevin_thibedeau 7y ago

Stern was broadcasting on public airwaves where the FCC sets a low threshold for "public decency". This isn't really comparable.

idlewords 7y ago

Howard Stern landed on his feet.