11 ms·

15 years ago i was the only one with AC in my building (20 apartments building). now only 6 apartments don't have AC (Bucharest)

nosianu 7y ago
Are the people in Bucharest richer now than they were, and did ACs become cheaper? While I too think it's warmer now where I live, and in the winters it definitely is, your anecdote does not show much.
- mrguyorama 7y ago
  You are missing a third option: AC became more necessary for normal life functioning
  - vixen99 7y ago
    That's not an equivalent third option unless you're in a position to afford it.
    - b_tterc_p 7y ago
      Afford means different things for necessities and luxury goods, so, semantics
      - rukittenme 7y ago
        A luxury can easily become a "necessity" with increases in purchasing power and/or a decreases in product prices. An anecdotal example. I purchased a home last year which did not have AC. The previous owners lived in the house for over 20 years with out ever "needing" an air conditioner. My wife and I did not make it to the summer before installing an AC. I have no doubt I could have survived without an AC but why bother? Its cheap (relatively speaking) and improves my quality of life.
        lutorm 7y ago
        It's also very dependent on personal adaptation. If you've always lived in an airconditioned space then you're not used to dealing with the heat. The previous owners likely were, and consequently were less bothered by it.
    - overcast 7y ago
      Putting food on the table isn't really a concern if you're all dead from heat exposure. Sounds like AC has just become a basic human need in some areas.
      - refurb 7y ago
        There are people living in 3rd world tropical countries who commonly experience 40C who might disagree with your "dead from heat exposure".
        dx87 7y ago
        Same with countries in the middle east. When I was in Iraq during the summer, it would normally be ~120F in the shade during the day, and get up to the 130-140 range in direct sunlight. It's not like the villages without stable power or AC had people dropping dead from heat all the time, they dressed appropriately and would only do physical activities in the morning and evening. During the hottest part of the day they'd hang around inside out of the sun and relax. You'd still get hot and sweaty, but you wouldn't die.
        overcast 7y ago
        Those people have been living in those temperatures for thousands of years. Their culture thrives in it. When heat waves hit temperate areas, people are not prepared. You sit out there in 140 degrees, and you're not going to survive very long without the knowledge to do so. Look at the animals dying in the polar regions, as their cold habitats warm up. No different.
        overcast 7y ago
        Yep, and some of those people die because of it. The temperature is CHANGING from their normal to extremes. People aren't prepared, that's the point. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/13/world/asia/india-heat-wave-deaths.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/13/world/asia/india-heat-wav...
  - egdod 7y ago
    We’re talking about a difference of less than 1 degree in 15 years. That probably doesn’t make AC a necessity.
    - noja 7y ago
      the peaks are higher, that's when you want AC
      - egdod 7y ago
        How different are the peaks?
  - rconti 7y ago
    That was the first option, to which Parent is replying with alternative/related options.
jedberg 7y ago
Same thing happened in LA in the 1980s. Before that, you didn't really need air conditioning in your home and having A/C had no effect on rent. By the 1990s, having A/C would allow you to charge much higher rents, because it was much more of a necessity that people would pay extra to have.
SomeOldThrow 7y ago
Ironically, this likely exacerbates warming.
- crispinb 7y ago
  It's not really an irony. It's just one more positive feedback mechanism. Humans (contra religious stories) are ecosystem participants.
romaaeterna 7y ago
Here are Bucharest temperatures since 1860, measured from the Filaret station, according to Berkeley. https://i.imgur.com/wolGEz3.png https://i.imgur.com/wolGEz3.png So while global temperatures may have been rising, they have been flat for Bucharest. The fact that you think it has been getting warmer for you there, however, is an interesting point about media effects and mass psychology. EDIT: Here too, is the same data station after Berkeley's data quality process has been applied: https://i.imgur.com/LvmbD9v.png https://i.imgur.com/LvmbD9v.png No comment.
- jamroom 7y ago
  What is "Berkeley's data quality process"? I've not heard of that. Thanks!
  - telotortium 7y ago
    The implication is that Berkeley is "correcting" the temperature record in Bucharest to show rising temperatures over time even though the raw data don't show an overall increase. I'll let someone with more expertise comment on what the rationale behind Berkeley's process actually is.
    - romaaeterna 7y ago
      I implied no such thing! I posted the raw data for the longest record Bucharest station that I could find, and included the adjusted data before someone could accuse me of hiding things. Here it is on the Berkeley site. Raw data is the top graph, quality controlled (their term!) is the bottom graph. http://berkeleyearth.lbl.gov/stations/157726 http://berkeleyearth.lbl.gov/stations/157726 If you want to find out their method, I'd recommend the following links: http://berkeleyearth.org/about-data-set/ http://berkeleyearth.org/about-data-set/ http://berkeleyearth.org/papers/ http://berkeleyearth.org/papers/ And please be more careful about accusations of climate change denialism. You could get people fired with that sort of thing.
      - jamroom 7y ago
lucb1e 7y ago
15 years ago, there were nearly twice as many people living in extreme poverty. The world is changing very rapidly. I lent the book to friends to read so I can only paraphrase from memory, but what Hans Rosling wrote in Factfulness is that he went back 20 years later to the same place in India, showing them pictures of how it was there 20 years ago and the huge improvements that were made, the people flat out didn't believe it. "Sure it was worse 20 years ago, but it was never that bad" was the people's response. Romania is an example of a country that has developed a lot in the past few decades. I'm inclined to think that people can now afford AC, rather than that it's necessary. It's really nice having a cool place to work and sleep in, it really improves the quality of life, so when people can buy one, they would. I don't know about the historical price of ACs when corrected for inflation, but it almost certainly didn't go up, and Romania doesn't have the temperatures they have near the equator. Those few degrees due to climate change is probably not the reason why suddenly a lot of people decided to buy one.
meerita 7y ago
I have been in Bucarest in April. It was hot as hell but more over was the humidity levels, totally killed me. I used AC all the way.
m463 7y ago
Might be like washing machines, which are a sort of a global prosperity indicator. or maybe cellphones?

nosianu 7y ago

Are the people in Bucharest richer now than they were, and did ACs become cheaper? While I too think it's warmer now where I live, and in the winters it definitely is, your anecdote does not show much.

mrguyorama 7y ago
You are missing a third option: AC became more necessary for normal life functioning
- vixen99 7y ago
  That's not an equivalent third option unless you're in a position to afford it.
  - b_tterc_p 7y ago
    Afford means different things for necessities and luxury goods, so, semantics
    - rukittenme 7y ago
      A luxury can easily become a "necessity" with increases in purchasing power and/or a decreases in product prices. An anecdotal example. I purchased a home last year which did not have AC. The previous owners lived in the house for over 20 years with out ever "needing" an air conditioner. My wife and I did not make it to the summer before installing an AC. I have no doubt I could have survived without an AC but why bother? Its cheap (relatively speaking) and improves my quality of life.
      - lutorm 7y ago
        It's also very dependent on personal adaptation. If you've always lived in an airconditioned space then you're not used to dealing with the heat. The previous owners likely were, and consequently were less bothered by it.
  - overcast 7y ago
    Putting food on the table isn't really a concern if you're all dead from heat exposure. Sounds like AC has just become a basic human need in some areas.
    - refurb 7y ago
      There are people living in 3rd world tropical countries who commonly experience 40C who might disagree with your "dead from heat exposure".
      - dx87 7y ago
        Same with countries in the middle east. When I was in Iraq during the summer, it would normally be ~120F in the shade during the day, and get up to the 130-140 range in direct sunlight. It's not like the villages without stable power or AC had people dropping dead from heat all the time, they dressed appropriately and would only do physical activities in the morning and evening. During the hottest part of the day they'd hang around inside out of the sun and relax. You'd still get hot and sweaty, but you wouldn't die.
        overcast 7y ago
        Those people have been living in those temperatures for thousands of years. Their culture thrives in it. When heat waves hit temperate areas, people are not prepared. You sit out there in 140 degrees, and you're not going to survive very long without the knowledge to do so. Look at the animals dying in the polar regions, as their cold habitats warm up. No different.
      - overcast 7y ago
        Yep, and some of those people die because of it. The temperature is CHANGING from their normal to extremes. People aren't prepared, that's the point. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/13/world/asia/india-heat-wave-deaths.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/13/world/asia/india-heat-wav...
- egdod 7y ago
  We’re talking about a difference of less than 1 degree in 15 years. That probably doesn’t make AC a necessity.
  - noja 7y ago
    the peaks are higher, that's when you want AC
    - egdod 7y ago
      How different are the peaks?
- rconti 7y ago
  That was the first option, to which Parent is replying with alternative/related options.

jedberg 7y ago

Same thing happened in LA in the 1980s. Before that, you didn't really need air conditioning in your home and having A/C had no effect on rent. By the 1990s, having A/C would allow you to charge much higher rents, because it was much more of a necessity that people would pay extra to have.

SomeOldThrow 7y ago

Ironically, this likely exacerbates warming.

crispinb 7y ago
It's not really an irony. It's just one more positive feedback mechanism. Humans (contra religious stories) are ecosystem participants.

romaaeterna 7y ago

Here are Bucharest temperatures since 1860, measured from the Filaret station, according to Berkeley. https://i.imgur.com/wolGEz3.png https://i.imgur.com/wolGEz3.png So while global temperatures may have been rising, they have been flat for Bucharest. The fact that you think it has been getting warmer for you there, however, is an interesting point about media effects and mass psychology. EDIT: Here too, is the same data station after Berkeley's data quality process has been applied: https://i.imgur.com/LvmbD9v.png https://i.imgur.com/LvmbD9v.png No comment.

jamroom 7y ago
What is "Berkeley's data quality process"? I've not heard of that. Thanks!
- telotortium 7y ago
  The implication is that Berkeley is "correcting" the temperature record in Bucharest to show rising temperatures over time even though the raw data don't show an overall increase. I'll let someone with more expertise comment on what the rationale behind Berkeley's process actually is.
  - romaaeterna 7y ago
    I implied no such thing! I posted the raw data for the longest record Bucharest station that I could find, and included the adjusted data before someone could accuse me of hiding things. Here it is on the Berkeley site. Raw data is the top graph, quality controlled (their term!) is the bottom graph. http://berkeleyearth.lbl.gov/stations/157726 http://berkeleyearth.lbl.gov/stations/157726 If you want to find out their method, I'd recommend the following links: http://berkeleyearth.org/about-data-set/ http://berkeleyearth.org/about-data-set/ http://berkeleyearth.org/papers/ http://berkeleyearth.org/papers/ And please be more careful about accusations of climate change denialism. You could get people fired with that sort of thing.
    - jamroom 7y ago

lucb1e 7y ago

15 years ago, there were nearly twice as many people living in extreme poverty. The world is changing very rapidly. I lent the book to friends to read so I can only paraphrase from memory, but what Hans Rosling wrote in Factfulness is that he went back 20 years later to the same place in India, showing them pictures of how it was there 20 years ago and the huge improvements that were made, the people flat out didn't believe it. "Sure it was worse 20 years ago, but it was never that bad" was the people's response. Romania is an example of a country that has developed a lot in the past few decades. I'm inclined to think that people can now afford AC, rather than that it's necessary. It's really nice having a cool place to work and sleep in, it really improves the quality of life, so when people can buy one, they would. I don't know about the historical price of ACs when corrected for inflation, but it almost certainly didn't go up, and Romania doesn't have the temperatures they have near the equator. Those few degrees due to climate change is probably not the reason why suddenly a lot of people decided to buy one.

meerita 7y ago

I have been in Bucarest in April. It was hot as hell but more over was the humidity levels, totally killed me. I used AC all the way.

m463 7y ago

Might be like washing machines, which are a sort of a global prosperity indicator. or maybe cellphones?