4 ms·

How does refusing to sign a non-compete clause typically play out? I imagine it goes back and forth, and I'm trying to imagine a tactful way to do it that does

by daenz 7y ago

How does refusing to sign a non-compete clause typically play out? I imagine it goes back and forth, and I'm trying to imagine a tactful way to do it that doesn't burn the relationship.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
toomuchtodo 7y ago
It depends on the value you can deliver. If you are valuable enough, a negotiation takes place. If you're a cog, the job offer will be rescinded. Never give notice at your current gig until you've seen everything you'll be required to sign at your new gig.
- bitexploder 7y ago
  I don’t think it burns the bridge. It is acceptable to have a moral and ethical objection to NDAs if you are just a staff IT worker.
  - toomuchtodo 7y ago
    I agree entirely. I have (politely) rejected several AWS recruiter inquiries because of Amazon business practices.
formercoder 7y ago
I've joined a small company who, upon my request, scoped the non-compete very specifically and added a clause stating that work I produce that did not compete belonged to me. I've joined a big company who said "this is the contract, sign it"
biggerfisch 7y ago
Personally, I've had a varied experience here. In one company, I explained my moral objection to this agreements and ended up getting in writing that it would not be enforced from the CEO/Owner of the company. That email and the fact that the scope was fairly tight (as opposed to this article) made me feel comfortable signing it. In a second case, I was actually able to negotiate it away. I ended up not taking that job for other reasons, but before that decision was made, they had retracted the need for it. Anecdotal, but maybe useful.
bitexploder 7y ago
If you are already employed this is a big thing to ask of an existing employee. Easy to say no, just be prepared to get fired. I don’t think there is a lot of nuance: “I don’t feel comfortable signing this agreement.” It unfairly limits your ability to earn a living IMO. Good luck getting in the door of a big company if the NDA is “policy”.
xwdv 7y ago
The good news is you will be free to compete.
SkyMarshal 7y ago
Some non-competes are written in a way where they are effectively asking you not to practice your profession for a year or whatever after leaving the company. You wouldn't ask a lawyer for that, or a doctor, etc., and shouldn't ask an engineer either. Sometimes the company can justify it if they provided something compensatory, like months of company-paid high-value training and skills development that significantly advanced your profession. Especially if the non-compete duration begins after that training ended buy while you still work for the company. Finish your training, stay at that company for the duration of the non-compete, then you're free to leave and work for a competitor if you want. Company gets their money's worth, and you're not stuck with a non-compete that begins the day you leave.
Spooky23 7y ago
Depends. If it's a big company with centralized administration, it's not going to happen. With a smaller company, a less assholey company or a somewhat independent division of a bigger company it's possible.
flurdy 7y ago
I have had a non compete clause suggested by my last few clients. Usually initially 12 months. For the last few the conversations have usually been like this: (client): "Here is our standard contract" (me): "Please remove the 12 months non compete clause" (client): "How about 6 months non compete?" (me): "No" (client): "3 months?" (me): "Fine, where do I sign?" I don't mind 3 months non compete. I can take a longer holiday if I desperately need to go straight back. I never have and 6 months is probably ok as well. It is mostly if I go somewhere else and it for some reasons finished early after a few months, then I am free to go wherever I choose.
PeterisP 7y ago
Well, the linked article claims that they tried to negotiate out of the non-compete and it was absolutely refused, so they didn't work there.

by daenz 7y ago

How does refusing to sign a non-compete clause typically play out? I imagine it goes back and forth, and I'm trying to imagine a tactful way to do it that doesn't burn the relationship.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

toomuchtodo 7y ago

It depends on the value you can deliver. If you are valuable enough, a negotiation takes place. If you're a cog, the job offer will be rescinded. Never give notice at your current gig until you've seen everything you'll be required to sign at your new gig.

bitexploder 7y ago
I don’t think it burns the bridge. It is acceptable to have a moral and ethical objection to NDAs if you are just a staff IT worker.
- toomuchtodo 7y ago
  I agree entirely. I have (politely) rejected several AWS recruiter inquiries because of Amazon business practices.

formercoder 7y ago

I've joined a small company who, upon my request, scoped the non-compete very specifically and added a clause stating that work I produce that did not compete belonged to me. I've joined a big company who said "this is the contract, sign it"

biggerfisch 7y ago

Personally, I've had a varied experience here. In one company, I explained my moral objection to this agreements and ended up getting in writing that it would not be enforced from the CEO/Owner of the company. That email and the fact that the scope was fairly tight (as opposed to this article) made me feel comfortable signing it. In a second case, I was actually able to negotiate it away. I ended up not taking that job for other reasons, but before that decision was made, they had retracted the need for it. Anecdotal, but maybe useful.

bitexploder 7y ago

If you are already employed this is a big thing to ask of an existing employee. Easy to say no, just be prepared to get fired. I don’t think there is a lot of nuance: “I don’t feel comfortable signing this agreement.” It unfairly limits your ability to earn a living IMO. Good luck getting in the door of a big company if the NDA is “policy”.

xwdv 7y ago

The good news is you will be free to compete.

SkyMarshal 7y ago

Some non-competes are written in a way where they are effectively asking you not to practice your profession for a year or whatever after leaving the company. You wouldn't ask a lawyer for that, or a doctor, etc., and shouldn't ask an engineer either. Sometimes the company can justify it if they provided something compensatory, like months of company-paid high-value training and skills development that significantly advanced your profession. Especially if the non-compete duration begins after that training ended buy while you still work for the company. Finish your training, stay at that company for the duration of the non-compete, then you're free to leave and work for a competitor if you want. Company gets their money's worth, and you're not stuck with a non-compete that begins the day you leave.

Spooky23 7y ago

Depends. If it's a big company with centralized administration, it's not going to happen. With a smaller company, a less assholey company or a somewhat independent division of a bigger company it's possible.

flurdy 7y ago

I have had a non compete clause suggested by my last few clients. Usually initially 12 months. For the last few the conversations have usually been like this: (client): "Here is our standard contract" (me): "Please remove the 12 months non compete clause" (client): "How about 6 months non compete?" (me): "No" (client): "3 months?" (me): "Fine, where do I sign?" I don't mind 3 months non compete. I can take a longer holiday if I desperately need to go straight back. I never have and 6 months is probably ok as well. It is mostly if I go somewhere else and it for some reasons finished early after a few months, then I am free to go wherever I choose.

PeterisP 7y ago

Well, the linked article claims that they tried to negotiate out of the non-compete and it was absolutely refused, so they didn't work there.