4 ms·

Those communities will just be driven underground, more than likely, to Tor sites and be much harder to track. At least once 4Chan and 8Chan are pushed out.

amaccuish 7y ago
Well no one is clearly tracking these people now when they post out in the open on *chan, so I'm not sure whether this is really such a problem.
- partiallypro 7y ago
  It's pretty obvious that they are, it's hard to track something that's anonymous. It's not like the 80s/90s when these people would congregate in groups and go to parties, etc. This is a new ball game. You also have to consider that *Channers often "shitpost" and 99% of threats aren't even legitimate.
  - amaccuish 7y ago
    If so what's the point in trying if you're going to expend a large amount of effort for relatively little gains. It would surely be better to accept that such forums will always exist but at least make it more difficult for people to accidentally stumble across this stuff.
- blaser-waffle 7y ago
  Plenty of people are tracking the chans; 8chan's /k/ occasionally had a thread about feds using screenshots from various chans. I'd bet my shoes that a great deal of Open Source Intelligence types float around on /k/ and other politically oriented boards as a way of scoping up occasional gold nuggets and taking the temperature of things. Someone is watching, but it's like panning gold from a river, except the gold is "Actionable Intelligence" and the river is high-pressure sewer main -- lots and lots of shit but little actual gold. High effort, but little yield.
  - malaya_zemlya 7y ago
    Bellingcat most certainly watches 8chan: https://www.bellingcat.com/news/americas/2019/08/04/the-el-paso-shooting-and-the-gamification-of-terror/ https://www.bellingcat.com/news/americas/2019/08/04/the-el-p...
root_axis 7y ago
> Those communities will just be driven underground So what? Those communities existed underground for decades and have only recently been pushed back into the mainstream. Being underground means it has less visibility to the mainstream and is thus less likely to influence people.
- LegitShady 7y ago
  Theyre being pushed into the mainstream with an agenda to censor and shut them down. The goal isn't to give them less visibility, its to target and attack them. You have a 180 on the cause-effect here.
  - root_axis 7y ago
    I made no comment with regard to cause and effect. The GP is stipulating that "those communities will just be driven underground", I am responding to that statement by stating that this is ok.
    - LegitShady 7y ago
      You said: > Being underground means it has less visibility to the mainstream and is thus less likely to influence people. But you have this backwards, the point of being pushed into the mainstream is to create crises by which to attack these platforms/sites. They weren't made mainstream by the underground, they were made mainstream by news orgs looking to attack any venue or message their political opponents have as racist/murderous/etc. They won't be driven underground to not influence people because the point is to make them boogie men for political points. This shooter used 8chan, therefore. He also used twitter and facebook and whatever else, but that isn't good for attacking people on their politics using the bodies of dead innocent people. These communities were already underground and the news orgs didn't like it. Now there's a spotlight on them and you don't like it. The idea is to create an untenable position for those sites.
      - ajross 7y ago
ajross 7y ago
They were pushed out of Reddit and 4chan already, and they didn't go to Tor. That seems somewhat pessimistic. Garden variety nutjobs aren't technical geniuses, they aren't going to head for "underground" sites, they'll just go silent for lack of a community. Again, serious, professional white nationalist terrorists or whatever will always have clandestine means of communication. But potentially violent nutjobs are only likely to become violent when they get egged on by other nutjobs, and by reducing the size of the nutjob community we reduce the threat.

amaccuish 7y ago

Well no one is clearly tracking these people now when they post out in the open on *chan, so I'm not sure whether this is really such a problem.

partiallypro 7y ago
It's pretty obvious that they are, it's hard to track something that's anonymous. It's not like the 80s/90s when these people would congregate in groups and go to parties, etc. This is a new ball game. You also have to consider that *Channers often "shitpost" and 99% of threats aren't even legitimate.
- amaccuish 7y ago
  If so what's the point in trying if you're going to expend a large amount of effort for relatively little gains. It would surely be better to accept that such forums will always exist but at least make it more difficult for people to accidentally stumble across this stuff.
blaser-waffle 7y ago
Plenty of people are tracking the chans; 8chan's /k/ occasionally had a thread about feds using screenshots from various chans. I'd bet my shoes that a great deal of Open Source Intelligence types float around on /k/ and other politically oriented boards as a way of scoping up occasional gold nuggets and taking the temperature of things. Someone is watching, but it's like panning gold from a river, except the gold is "Actionable Intelligence" and the river is high-pressure sewer main -- lots and lots of shit but little actual gold. High effort, but little yield.
- malaya_zemlya 7y ago
  Bellingcat most certainly watches 8chan: https://www.bellingcat.com/news/americas/2019/08/04/the-el-paso-shooting-and-the-gamification-of-terror/ https://www.bellingcat.com/news/americas/2019/08/04/the-el-p...

root_axis 7y ago

> Those communities will just be driven underground So what? Those communities existed underground for decades and have only recently been pushed back into the mainstream. Being underground means it has less visibility to the mainstream and is thus less likely to influence people.

LegitShady 7y ago
Theyre being pushed into the mainstream with an agenda to censor and shut them down. The goal isn't to give them less visibility, its to target and attack them. You have a 180 on the cause-effect here.
- root_axis 7y ago
  I made no comment with regard to cause and effect. The GP is stipulating that "those communities will just be driven underground", I am responding to that statement by stating that this is ok.
  - LegitShady 7y ago
    You said: > Being underground means it has less visibility to the mainstream and is thus less likely to influence people. But you have this backwards, the point of being pushed into the mainstream is to create crises by which to attack these platforms/sites. They weren't made mainstream by the underground, they were made mainstream by news orgs looking to attack any venue or message their political opponents have as racist/murderous/etc. They won't be driven underground to not influence people because the point is to make them boogie men for political points. This shooter used 8chan, therefore. He also used twitter and facebook and whatever else, but that isn't good for attacking people on their politics using the bodies of dead innocent people. These communities were already underground and the news orgs didn't like it. Now there's a spotlight on them and you don't like it. The idea is to create an untenable position for those sites.
    - ajross 7y ago

ajross 7y ago

They were pushed out of Reddit and 4chan already, and they didn't go to Tor. That seems somewhat pessimistic. Garden variety nutjobs aren't technical geniuses, they aren't going to head for "underground" sites, they'll just go silent for lack of a community. Again, serious, professional white nationalist terrorists or whatever will always have clandestine means of communication. But potentially violent nutjobs are only likely to become violent when they get egged on by other nutjobs, and by reducing the size of the nutjob community we reduce the threat.