5 ms·

And the effort required to kill a number of people with a gun is significantly less--like, to the point where the "but but what about that?" verges on ludicrous

And the effort required to kill a number of people with a gun is significantly less--like, to the point where the "but but what about that?" verges on ludicrous--than knife crime or acid attacks. Gun violence requires less specialized knowledge and provides fewer opportunities to catch a criminal before their plan goes off than bombings. And vehicles have overwhelmingly more legitimate use than guns that present a meaningful and socially valid argument against their restriction where guns have no such value. Which is why this is low-hanging fruit to deal with and long past due.

leereeves 7y ago
The vast majority of killers aren't aiming to kill a lot of people. Just one, usually. You're focusing on the dramatic mass killings instead of the significant majority of murderers, who could switch to knives and acid. And then there are the mass killers, but since vehicles won't be banned because they have "overwhelmingly more legitimate use", they would remain available for mass killings. As would bombs, though that does require more skill than the other weapons. And guns would remain available too. Gun control does very little to prevent criminals from obtaining guns, as the gun crime rate in Chicago shows.
- jakelazaroff 7y ago
  > And then there are the mass killers, but since vehicles won't be banned because they have "overwhelmingly more legitimate use", they would remain available for mass killings. Yet curiously, almost all mass murders are committed with guns, not vehicles.
  - leereeves 7y ago
    The ones you hear about, because there's a political agenda behind publicizing them. Have you heard about any of these? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle-ramming_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle-ramming_attack
    - jakelazaroff 7y ago
      You say political agenda, but your own source lists the most recent vehicle attack as occurring last year, and no casualties occurred. Multiple mass shootings have claimed tens of lives in the past few days alone.
      - leereeves 7y ago
        Are we reading the same page? The most recent attack listed in my source was in March of this year and killed six. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaoyang_car_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaoyang_car_attack And that's just the last time someone added one to the page. I doubt the list is comprehensive or that was the last attack.
        toyg 7y ago
        He clearly meant the last attack on American soil.
        leereeves 7y ago
        I think we all agree American murderers prefer to use guns rather than vehicles or acid. That's our culture. But it's not worse than other cultures where murderers prefer to use acid or knives or vehicles or bombs.
        jakelazaroff 7y ago
        It's a pragmatic preference, not a cultural one: guns are much better murder weapons than cars.
    - throw0101a 7y ago
      You don't hear a lot about many of them because there are only so many hours in the day: * https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting Compare the list of Canada which fits on one page (going back to 1689): * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Canada to the US, which has page-per-year breakdowns: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_... Canada has the sixth-highest firearm ownership rate, yet has a death rate lower than many EU countries: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_g... * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-r... So firearms aren't alien to Canadians, and yet the number of blood baths occurring is much, much lower. Incidents do occur: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_van_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_van_attack * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Toronto_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Toronto_shooting but much less frequently.
- throw0101a 7y ago
  > The vast majority of killers aren't aiming to kill a lot of people. The amount of low-level carnage that happens daily in the US from either incompetent, negligent, or malicious gun owners is quite impressive: * https://twitter.com/Well_Regulated_/status/1157550990343712770 https://twitter.com/Well_Regulated_/status/11575509903437127... * https://twitter.com/Well_Regulated_/status/1157884540477759489 https://twitter.com/Well_Regulated_/status/11578845404777594... * https://twitter.com/Well_Regulated_/status/1158145233592434691 https://twitter.com/Well_Regulated_/status/11581452335924346... * https://twitter.com/Well_Regulated_/status/1158207870808264704 https://twitter.com/Well_Regulated_/status/11582078708082647... A total ban on firearms isn't even necessary; just a filter on the dumb asses and hot heads: * https://www.vox.com/2018/11/13/17658028/massachusetts-gun-control-laws-licenses https://www.vox.com/2018/11/13/17658028/massachusetts-gun-co...

leereeves 7y ago

The vast majority of killers aren't aiming to kill a lot of people. Just one, usually. You're focusing on the dramatic mass killings instead of the significant majority of murderers, who could switch to knives and acid. And then there are the mass killers, but since vehicles won't be banned because they have "overwhelmingly more legitimate use", they would remain available for mass killings. As would bombs, though that does require more skill than the other weapons. And guns would remain available too. Gun control does very little to prevent criminals from obtaining guns, as the gun crime rate in Chicago shows.

jakelazaroff 7y ago
> And then there are the mass killers, but since vehicles won't be banned because they have "overwhelmingly more legitimate use", they would remain available for mass killings. Yet curiously, almost all mass murders are committed with guns, not vehicles.
- leereeves 7y ago
  The ones you hear about, because there's a political agenda behind publicizing them. Have you heard about any of these? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle-ramming_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle-ramming_attack
  - jakelazaroff 7y ago
    You say political agenda, but your own source lists the most recent vehicle attack as occurring last year, and no casualties occurred. Multiple mass shootings have claimed tens of lives in the past few days alone.
    - leereeves 7y ago
      Are we reading the same page? The most recent attack listed in my source was in March of this year and killed six. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaoyang_car_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaoyang_car_attack And that's just the last time someone added one to the page. I doubt the list is comprehensive or that was the last attack.
      - toyg 7y ago
        He clearly meant the last attack on American soil.
        leereeves 7y ago
        I think we all agree American murderers prefer to use guns rather than vehicles or acid. That's our culture. But it's not worse than other cultures where murderers prefer to use acid or knives or vehicles or bombs.
        jakelazaroff 7y ago
        It's a pragmatic preference, not a cultural one: guns are much better murder weapons than cars.
  - throw0101a 7y ago
    You don't hear a lot about many of them because there are only so many hours in the day: * https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting Compare the list of Canada which fits on one page (going back to 1689): * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Canada to the US, which has page-per-year breakdowns: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_... Canada has the sixth-highest firearm ownership rate, yet has a death rate lower than many EU countries: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_g... * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-r... So firearms aren't alien to Canadians, and yet the number of blood baths occurring is much, much lower. Incidents do occur: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_van_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_van_attack * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Toronto_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Toronto_shooting but much less frequently.
throw0101a 7y ago
> The vast majority of killers aren't aiming to kill a lot of people. The amount of low-level carnage that happens daily in the US from either incompetent, negligent, or malicious gun owners is quite impressive: * https://twitter.com/Well_Regulated_/status/1157550990343712770 https://twitter.com/Well_Regulated_/status/11575509903437127... * https://twitter.com/Well_Regulated_/status/1157884540477759489 https://twitter.com/Well_Regulated_/status/11578845404777594... * https://twitter.com/Well_Regulated_/status/1158145233592434691 https://twitter.com/Well_Regulated_/status/11581452335924346... * https://twitter.com/Well_Regulated_/status/1158207870808264704 https://twitter.com/Well_Regulated_/status/11582078708082647... A total ban on firearms isn't even necessary; just a filter on the dumb asses and hot heads: * https://www.vox.com/2018/11/13/17658028/massachusetts-gun-control-laws-licenses https://www.vox.com/2018/11/13/17658028/massachusetts-gun-co...