4 ms·

THIS is basically what I feel is the reason why most german software companies are lacking success in international competition... Disclaimer: I'm german, have

THIS is basically what I feel is the reason why most german software companies are lacking success in international competition... Disclaimer: I'm german, have software engineering degree and hate german conservative company structures not adapting to the 21st century...

pca2 7y ago
can you explain a bit more about "German conservative company structures" for us non-Germans?
- juangacovas 7y ago
  Here in Mallorca island some call germans "cap quadrats" (being "square heads") for a reason. I'm sure they also call us names...
- mr_overalls 7y ago
  In a nutshell: Germans seem to love bureaucracy, process, and red tape. https://www.dw.com/en/germans-and-bureaucracy/a-16446787 https://www.dw.com/en/germans-and-bureaucracy/a-16446787
  - jacobolus 7y ago
    There is a trade-off. German society (compared to some others) seems to do much more enforcement of industry-wide and society-wide standardization (e.g. of measurement systems, part compatibility, common procedures, ...), with an expectation that everyone should “follow the rules”. This has the advantage of increasing interoperability and compatibility and making many things more predictable and easier to assess/audit, at the expense of sometimes fixing poor choices and forcing them into contexts where they should be discarded. * * * As one example, most of the design features of computer keyboards sold worldwide from the 1980s–1990s were forced to conform to a (not especially well considered, in my opinion) German standard, which was adopted by IBM and then copied by everyone else, and later became the basis of an ISO standard. Beige or gray color with matte surface texture and dark labels (no colors allowed), cylindrical keytops with primary symbols in one corner to make room for standard German labels, low keyboard height (which did not fit many of the keyswitches from the 1970s), a shape precisely accommodating the standard German key layout, ... At some point companies started ignoring this standard (e.g. producing black keyboards), and I don’t think there was ever enforcement. But we are still stuck with many of those design choices now, a dramatic difference from the extreme diversity of designs from the 1960s and 1970s. Arguably many of the keyboards of the 1970s were better than almost anything produced at mass scale since.
- close04 7y ago
  It's basically procedural rigidity. Everything is formalized and has to work in a specific way. This may be an asset sometimes when reproducibility or accountability are key. But the crippling lack of flexibility is a serious downside many other times.
ImprovedSilence 7y ago
I’m sure this is a big part of large entrenched US companies that aren’t a part of the SV “move fast and break things” culture.
davinic 7y ago
I use a lot of music software and DAWs created by German companies. Any idea why Germany has been so successful in that specific market?
- aasasd 7y ago
  Maybe a DAW has lotsa moving parts and the author(s) need patience to implement them all, har har.
mayankkaizen 7y ago
I am ignorant about this. Can you or someone else explain why this is the case with german s/w companies? What is the reasoning here?
0xdeadbeefbabe 7y ago
Usually comments about Germany are more positive. What is going on with progressive HN? Won't a German boss think you are incompetent for working six nines? For reference ukigumo says, "In countries like Germany or Holland, if you consistently stay over-time in the office you might be surprised to find that you will be called upon justifying your behavior since the local belief is that you are either incompetent..." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9456190 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9456190
- Confusion 7y ago
  People generalize personal experience and anecdotes they have heard. People may also generalize to cultures they think are similar without evidence.
  - 0xdeadbeefbabe 7y ago
    Three anecdotes and I wouldn't be treated this way.

pca2 7y ago

can you explain a bit more about "German conservative company structures" for us non-Germans?

juangacovas 7y ago
Here in Mallorca island some call germans "cap quadrats" (being "square heads") for a reason. I'm sure they also call us names...
mr_overalls 7y ago
In a nutshell: Germans seem to love bureaucracy, process, and red tape. https://www.dw.com/en/germans-and-bureaucracy/a-16446787 https://www.dw.com/en/germans-and-bureaucracy/a-16446787
- jacobolus 7y ago
  There is a trade-off. German society (compared to some others) seems to do much more enforcement of industry-wide and society-wide standardization (e.g. of measurement systems, part compatibility, common procedures, ...), with an expectation that everyone should “follow the rules”. This has the advantage of increasing interoperability and compatibility and making many things more predictable and easier to assess/audit, at the expense of sometimes fixing poor choices and forcing them into contexts where they should be discarded. * * * As one example, most of the design features of computer keyboards sold worldwide from the 1980s–1990s were forced to conform to a (not especially well considered, in my opinion) German standard, which was adopted by IBM and then copied by everyone else, and later became the basis of an ISO standard. Beige or gray color with matte surface texture and dark labels (no colors allowed), cylindrical keytops with primary symbols in one corner to make room for standard German labels, low keyboard height (which did not fit many of the keyswitches from the 1970s), a shape precisely accommodating the standard German key layout, ... At some point companies started ignoring this standard (e.g. producing black keyboards), and I don’t think there was ever enforcement. But we are still stuck with many of those design choices now, a dramatic difference from the extreme diversity of designs from the 1960s and 1970s. Arguably many of the keyboards of the 1970s were better than almost anything produced at mass scale since.
close04 7y ago
It's basically procedural rigidity. Everything is formalized and has to work in a specific way. This may be an asset sometimes when reproducibility or accountability are key. But the crippling lack of flexibility is a serious downside many other times.

ImprovedSilence 7y ago

I’m sure this is a big part of large entrenched US companies that aren’t a part of the SV “move fast and break things” culture.

davinic 7y ago

I use a lot of music software and DAWs created by German companies. Any idea why Germany has been so successful in that specific market?

aasasd 7y ago
Maybe a DAW has lotsa moving parts and the author(s) need patience to implement them all, har har.

mayankkaizen 7y ago

I am ignorant about this. Can you or someone else explain why this is the case with german s/w companies? What is the reasoning here?

0xdeadbeefbabe 7y ago

Usually comments about Germany are more positive. What is going on with progressive HN? Won't a German boss think you are incompetent for working six nines? For reference ukigumo says, "In countries like Germany or Holland, if you consistently stay over-time in the office you might be surprised to find that you will be called upon justifying your behavior since the local belief is that you are either incompetent..." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9456190 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9456190

Confusion 7y ago
People generalize personal experience and anecdotes they have heard. People may also generalize to cultures they think are similar without evidence.
- 0xdeadbeefbabe 7y ago
  Three anecdotes and I wouldn't be treated this way.