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I'm bullish on Apple Card. Compared to my MajorBank card, I expect that Apple Card will have somewhat worse rewards. But the process - signup, spending trackin

I'm bullish on Apple Card. Compared to my MajorBank card, I expect that Apple Card will have somewhat worse rewards. But the process - signup, spending tracking and notifications, accessing rewards, freezing, cancellation - will be leagues better, and privacy will be better too. That will be their edge. The MajorBank mobile app is weird and janky feeling, with lots of ads and other nonsense in it. It pushes me to open investment accounts and take out a mortgage. It tells me I can get 10% back at KidsPizzaRestaurant. It promotes "offers we've selected just for you based on your relationship with MajorBank," through virtue of monitoring my spending history. I expect none of that from Apple. In my mind the risks are 1. Goldman Sachs and 2. Apple's financialization / being incentivized to push people into debt.

arcticbull 7y ago
Apple Card is just a co-branded credit card no different than a Chase United MileagePlus card. Apple, like United, is the co-brand partner -- the face -- Goldman, like Chase, does literally everything else. Apple Card has a few neat features but not much more than anything else you've added to your Apple Wallet. Credit cards are a high CAC business in the premium space -- hundreds to a thousand dollars for an Amex Platinum class card. All Apple does different here is lower CAC by leveraging their immense brand power and their retail network and a few neat frilly UI features. Those aren't worth the opportunity cost of a 2% flat cash back card with no annual fee like the Citi Double Cash, or 2.67% with Bank of America if you have 100K in total balances including investments. Those are the numbers to beat, and also why it's so hard to truly innovate in this space.
- et2o 7y ago
  This card is offering 2% cash back with no annual fee so long as you use Apple Pay. Seems pretty competitive.
  - saltminer 7y ago
    It's really not at all competitive. A shocking number of places still use a crappy magstripe reader or have a nice new Vodafone terminal but disable NFC (and possibly chip as well). Apple Card only gives you 2% if you can use NFC, Citi gives you 2% even at hotels and airlines that require a card # online, and parks and old gas stations that still just have a magstripe reader. (I've never been to a hotel that took chip or NFC for last-minute bookings, it's always a crappy old magstripe reader built into the keyboard.)
    - ceejayoz 7y ago
      > A shocking number of places still use a crappy magstripe reader or have a nice new Vodafone terminal but disable NFC (and possibly chip as well). In other words, Apple's enlisting millions of people to push at a grassroots level for NFC adoption, and making money off them at the same time.
      - arcticbull 7y ago
        And how do you plan to get the entire Internet where you probably do most of your shopping to switch to Apple Pay? :) Amazon's in no hurry, and that's who gets a disproportionate amount of my spend.
        ceejayoz 7y ago
        Amazon offers (and I have) a store card that gives 5% cash back. I'd be insane to use Apple Pay there. Anywhere that uses Stripe can accept Apple Pay, and the same approach from meatspace works in getting people to turn it on - get people to complain because they're missing out on their cash-back.
  - arcticbull 7y ago
    The competitive options are 2%+ with no annual fee and no requirement to use Apple Pay (but you still retain that option). On this axis it’s strictly better.
bertil 7y ago
I’m still waiting for anyone to realise that Cambridge Analytica main data source was augmented credit card data (Acxiom mainly), and the subsequent scandal. Apple has the clout and the PR team to make that happen. They are still going after Facebook but I suspect they’ll go after credit cards soon enough.
athenot 7y ago
I've noticed Amex has already reacted to this. - mobile app improvements with effortless freeze/cancellation/card reorder - great integrations in iOS/macOS - even the metal credit card that is very similar to how the physical apple card has been described For now the rewards program I'm works well for me and exceeds what Apple has announced; but Apple's is the next best option. One good thing with Apple Card is that by being in the MasterCard network, it can be good for those places that don't take Amex.

arcticbull 7y ago

Apple Card is just a co-branded credit card no different than a Chase United MileagePlus card. Apple, like United, is the co-brand partner -- the face -- Goldman, like Chase, does literally everything else. Apple Card has a few neat features but not much more than anything else you've added to your Apple Wallet. Credit cards are a high CAC business in the premium space -- hundreds to a thousand dollars for an Amex Platinum class card. All Apple does different here is lower CAC by leveraging their immense brand power and their retail network and a few neat frilly UI features. Those aren't worth the opportunity cost of a 2% flat cash back card with no annual fee like the Citi Double Cash, or 2.67% with Bank of America if you have 100K in total balances including investments. Those are the numbers to beat, and also why it's so hard to truly innovate in this space.

et2o 7y ago
This card is offering 2% cash back with no annual fee so long as you use Apple Pay. Seems pretty competitive.
- saltminer 7y ago
  It's really not at all competitive. A shocking number of places still use a crappy magstripe reader or have a nice new Vodafone terminal but disable NFC (and possibly chip as well). Apple Card only gives you 2% if you can use NFC, Citi gives you 2% even at hotels and airlines that require a card # online, and parks and old gas stations that still just have a magstripe reader. (I've never been to a hotel that took chip or NFC for last-minute bookings, it's always a crappy old magstripe reader built into the keyboard.)
  - ceejayoz 7y ago
    > A shocking number of places still use a crappy magstripe reader or have a nice new Vodafone terminal but disable NFC (and possibly chip as well). In other words, Apple's enlisting millions of people to push at a grassroots level for NFC adoption, and making money off them at the same time.
    - arcticbull 7y ago
      And how do you plan to get the entire Internet where you probably do most of your shopping to switch to Apple Pay? :) Amazon's in no hurry, and that's who gets a disproportionate amount of my spend.
      - ceejayoz 7y ago
        Amazon offers (and I have) a store card that gives 5% cash back. I'd be insane to use Apple Pay there. Anywhere that uses Stripe can accept Apple Pay, and the same approach from meatspace works in getting people to turn it on - get people to complain because they're missing out on their cash-back.
- arcticbull 7y ago
  The competitive options are 2%+ with no annual fee and no requirement to use Apple Pay (but you still retain that option). On this axis it’s strictly better.

bertil 7y ago

I’m still waiting for anyone to realise that Cambridge Analytica main data source was augmented credit card data (Acxiom mainly), and the subsequent scandal. Apple has the clout and the PR team to make that happen. They are still going after Facebook but I suspect they’ll go after credit cards soon enough.

athenot 7y ago

I've noticed Amex has already reacted to this. - mobile app improvements with effortless freeze/cancellation/card reorder - great integrations in iOS/macOS - even the metal credit card that is very similar to how the physical apple card has been described For now the rewards program I'm works well for me and exceeds what Apple has announced; but Apple's is the next best option. One good thing with Apple Card is that by being in the MasterCard network, it can be good for those places that don't take Amex.