4 ms·

no they don't. deepfakes still look fake, until that changes deekfakes are a tempest teapot.

kevingadd 7y ago
So are you saying they won't ever look realistic "enough"? Are you saying that even the average grandma or child has enough media and computer literacy to recognize a deepfake? Even if the fake is of someone they've never met? Is it harmless for a child or mother to see a deepfake of a family member doing something horrible? Even if it's a tempest in a teapot right now (I think this is a questionable assertion in 2019) it seems pretty safe to bet that it will be a big problem within 5 years. Maybe less.
- pilif 7y ago
  Also it gets worse because it also undermines the credibility of factually correct news. Once a fake isn’t easily distinguishable from reality any more, even media literate people will start to question or even dismiss any piece of information the moment it feels at all contrary to their thinking.
  - devoply 7y ago
    Very good deep fake, still pretty damn fake to me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dBiNGufIJw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dBiNGufIJw
    - pixl97 7y ago
      The funny/sad thing here is you are setting yourself up for failure. In the future you will end up considering a faked image real because you will reason there was no way you wouldn't recognize a faked image/video.
- gingabriska 7y ago
  Our brain is exceptionally good at filling in the blanks. It doesn't have to be perfect to make people believe.
mrarjen 7y ago
Most people cant't even see that the Onion is satire... Half baked fakes are already far more difficult to spot.
- devoply 7y ago
  I have yet to see concrete examples of any of this from family members, friends, or relatives. People believe what they want to believe so I am sure plenty of people are "tricked" because they see some half-ass adulterated content trying to pass itself off as the truth, that they want to believe is real. In the end that's a question of belief not a question of ability. I remember seeing examples from conflicts where video from another event was passed off by the mainstream media to spin the story. It was not until it was called out because people found the real source and posted it debunking what was shown. I expect more or less the same process with deep fakes. Find the source material and then show how it was adulterated to produce the fake.
  - mrarjen 7y ago
    Something even reaching mainstream media is already too far down the line, making the tools to nip this in the bud before it reaches mainstream would be quite valuable in my opinion.
  - kibibu 7y ago
    You should check out the 'atetheonion' subreddit
    - astine 7y ago
      Most people can tell that the Onion is fake, but given that there are millions of people out there and even the smartest of us have our off days, you're going to see people falling for it all the time. It's as much a numbers game as people being gullible.
  - xamuel 7y ago
    Agree, everyone thought the "grab her by the..." soundbite was going to sink Trump, but it didn't really do anything. I'd be far more terrified if there were an AI capable of generating genuinely catchy/hilarious/original meme images. The "original" part is the hardest part of the equation, because even if you managed the "catchy/hilarious" part (which is already almost impossible), the novelty of the results would wear off quickly if the machine isn't capable of true originality.
onion2k 7y ago
deepfakes still look fake It should be obvious that the deep fakes that don't look wrong will be (wrongly) classified as "not deep fakes", so the premise of "deepfakes still look fake" is completely flawed. "deepfakes that look fake still look fake" isn't very useful.
- devoply 7y ago
  Let's see examples of what you are speaking about? There are no magical deep fakes that are undecipherable and yet have had any sort of impact.
  - onion2k 7y ago
    There are no magical deep fakes that are undecipherable and yet have had any sort of impact. So you agree that there are deep fakes people can't tell are deep fakes, but now you're saying that's OK because no one has used them in an impactful way yet?
  - colordrops 7y ago
    https://www.engadget.com/2019/07/30/livestreamer-caught-using-face-filter-to-make-herself-look-young/ https://www.engadget.com/2019/07/30/livestreamer-caught-usin...
    - PeterStuer 7y ago
      It is a live video enhancement filter, but is that based on deepfake?
      - colordrops 7y ago
        Most here are using the term "deepfake" as a generic term describing the use of software to create a believable fake visage of a human face. The discussion is about the ramifications of the widespread use of this capability, which has nothing to do with the particular software that was used. In any case, the provided link is strong evidence that currently widely available software is enough to fool a lot of people that one person is another person, and we can confidently predict that software will only get better at this.
TrackerFF 7y ago
I think people are willing to suspend their disbelief, if the message aligns with their beliefs. A couple of minutes of scrolling on facebook reveals a ton of obvious fake stuff, and people lapping it all up. Just planting the seed is enough.
- devchix 7y ago
  You are exactly right. An episode of The Secret History of the Future, From Zero to Selfie has a snippet interview with Hany Farid of Dartmouth, talking about the fake photo of John Kerry and Jane Fonda, in context of the 2004 US Presidential election. "After the election, after Kerry lost, I remember listening to a radio station news story, and they were interviewing somebody who voted for Kerry's opponent, and he said 'Why didn't you vote for Kerry?' and he said 'I couldn't get that image of Kerry and Fonda out of my head. And the reporter said, 'Well, you know that was a fake image,' and this is true. The guy said, 'I know, but I couldn't get the image out of my head.'" https://podcasts.google.com/?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vaGlzdG9yeW9mdGhlZnV0dXJl&episode=MDkwMzdjNTItNDk3ZS0xMWU4LTllYjUtOGI5ZGNmZDRjMDk1 https://podcasts.google.com/?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcG... near the 22:40 mark.
gingabriska 7y ago
So do filters on selfie apps and also makeup looks fake at many places. But it seems to be tricking lots of us just fine?
jonas21 7y ago
I dunno... the Deep Video Portraits work looks pretty convincing to me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qc5P2bvfl44 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qc5P2bvfl44
- jcims 7y ago
  Ctrl Shift Face on YouTube has some really good stuff. There are definitely artifacts in this vid but the seamless transitions are pretty crazy - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPhUhypV27w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPhUhypV27w To me the odd part is that these are just generally individuals tinkering with the technology using source material that wasn't intended to support a fake.
digitalsushi 7y ago
of all the deepfakes we can identify, they are all obviously fakes. of all the deepfakes we dont identify, we don't count them in our identification. therefore we catch 100% of deepfakes.

So are you saying they won't ever look realistic "enough"? Are you saying that even the average grandma or child has enough media and computer literacy to recognize a deepfake? Even if the fake is of someone they've never met? Is it harmless for a child or mother to see a deepfake of a family member doing something horrible? Even if it's a tempest in a teapot right now (I think this is a questionable assertion in 2019) it seems pretty safe to bet that it will be a big problem within 5 years. Maybe less.

pilif 7y ago
Also it gets worse because it also undermines the credibility of factually correct news. Once a fake isn’t easily distinguishable from reality any more, even media literate people will start to question or even dismiss any piece of information the moment it feels at all contrary to their thinking.
- devoply 7y ago
  Very good deep fake, still pretty damn fake to me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dBiNGufIJw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dBiNGufIJw
  - pixl97 7y ago
    The funny/sad thing here is you are setting yourself up for failure. In the future you will end up considering a faked image real because you will reason there was no way you wouldn't recognize a faked image/video.
gingabriska 7y ago
Our brain is exceptionally good at filling in the blanks. It doesn't have to be perfect to make people believe.

mrarjen 7y ago

Most people cant't even see that the Onion is satire... Half baked fakes are already far more difficult to spot.

devoply 7y ago
I have yet to see concrete examples of any of this from family members, friends, or relatives. People believe what they want to believe so I am sure plenty of people are "tricked" because they see some half-ass adulterated content trying to pass itself off as the truth, that they want to believe is real. In the end that's a question of belief not a question of ability. I remember seeing examples from conflicts where video from another event was passed off by the mainstream media to spin the story. It was not until it was called out because people found the real source and posted it debunking what was shown. I expect more or less the same process with deep fakes. Find the source material and then show how it was adulterated to produce the fake.
- mrarjen 7y ago
  Something even reaching mainstream media is already too far down the line, making the tools to nip this in the bud before it reaches mainstream would be quite valuable in my opinion.
- kibibu 7y ago
  You should check out the 'atetheonion' subreddit
  - astine 7y ago
    Most people can tell that the Onion is fake, but given that there are millions of people out there and even the smartest of us have our off days, you're going to see people falling for it all the time. It's as much a numbers game as people being gullible.
- xamuel 7y ago
  Agree, everyone thought the "grab her by the..." soundbite was going to sink Trump, but it didn't really do anything. I'd be far more terrified if there were an AI capable of generating genuinely catchy/hilarious/original meme images. The "original" part is the hardest part of the equation, because even if you managed the "catchy/hilarious" part (which is already almost impossible), the novelty of the results would wear off quickly if the machine isn't capable of true originality.

onion2k 7y ago

deepfakes still look fake It should be obvious that the deep fakes that don't look wrong will be (wrongly) classified as "not deep fakes", so the premise of "deepfakes still look fake" is completely flawed. "deepfakes that look fake still look fake" isn't very useful.

devoply 7y ago
Let's see examples of what you are speaking about? There are no magical deep fakes that are undecipherable and yet have had any sort of impact.
- onion2k 7y ago
  There are no magical deep fakes that are undecipherable and yet have had any sort of impact. So you agree that there are deep fakes people can't tell are deep fakes, but now you're saying that's OK because no one has used them in an impactful way yet?
- colordrops 7y ago
  https://www.engadget.com/2019/07/30/livestreamer-caught-using-face-filter-to-make-herself-look-young/ https://www.engadget.com/2019/07/30/livestreamer-caught-usin...
  - PeterStuer 7y ago
    It is a live video enhancement filter, but is that based on deepfake?
    - colordrops 7y ago
      Most here are using the term "deepfake" as a generic term describing the use of software to create a believable fake visage of a human face. The discussion is about the ramifications of the widespread use of this capability, which has nothing to do with the particular software that was used. In any case, the provided link is strong evidence that currently widely available software is enough to fool a lot of people that one person is another person, and we can confidently predict that software will only get better at this.

TrackerFF 7y ago

I think people are willing to suspend their disbelief, if the message aligns with their beliefs. A couple of minutes of scrolling on facebook reveals a ton of obvious fake stuff, and people lapping it all up. Just planting the seed is enough.

devchix 7y ago
You are exactly right. An episode of The Secret History of the Future, From Zero to Selfie has a snippet interview with Hany Farid of Dartmouth, talking about the fake photo of John Kerry and Jane Fonda, in context of the 2004 US Presidential election. "After the election, after Kerry lost, I remember listening to a radio station news story, and they were interviewing somebody who voted for Kerry's opponent, and he said 'Why didn't you vote for Kerry?' and he said 'I couldn't get that image of Kerry and Fonda out of my head. And the reporter said, 'Well, you know that was a fake image,' and this is true. The guy said, 'I know, but I couldn't get the image out of my head.'" https://podcasts.google.com/?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vaGlzdG9yeW9mdGhlZnV0dXJl&episode=MDkwMzdjNTItNDk3ZS0xMWU4LTllYjUtOGI5ZGNmZDRjMDk1 https://podcasts.google.com/?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcG... near the 22:40 mark.

gingabriska 7y ago

So do filters on selfie apps and also makeup looks fake at many places. But it seems to be tricking lots of us just fine?

jonas21 7y ago

I dunno... the Deep Video Portraits work looks pretty convincing to me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qc5P2bvfl44 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qc5P2bvfl44

jcims 7y ago
Ctrl Shift Face on YouTube has some really good stuff. There are definitely artifacts in this vid but the seamless transitions are pretty crazy - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPhUhypV27w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPhUhypV27w To me the odd part is that these are just generally individuals tinkering with the technology using source material that wasn't intended to support a fake.

digitalsushi 7y ago

of all the deepfakes we can identify, they are all obviously fakes. of all the deepfakes we dont identify, we don't count them in our identification. therefore we catch 100% of deepfakes.