5 ms·

In every other, let's say, G20 country, someone shooting up a shopping mall and killing 20 will absolutely make national news - they will talk about it for mont

In every other, let's say, G20 country, someone shooting up a shopping mall and killing 20 will absolutely make national news - they will talk about it for months and it will be ranked "top ten worst news for $country in 2019", if not the absolute worst. In some countries (let's say, Korea) reporters will probably dig into the shooter's elementary school transcripts and interview second cousins. In other words, if anyone is aiming for notoriety, shooting up people in Seoul or Tokyo will give you an eternal place in national zeitgeist, while in America you will be famous until the next shooting: A few months? Weeks? Yet nobody's (thankfully) taking up the opportunity in these other countries. Certainly not every week, or even every year. It's not the media. It's not attention-seeking. It's not games (duh). Maybe it's a bit about mental health, but other countries also have problems with crazies and they don't just shoot up schools and nightclubs. Can we stop beating around the bush?

gruez 7y ago
>In other words, if anyone is aiming for notoriety, shooting up people in Seoul or Tokyo will give you an eternal place in national zeitgeist, while in America you will be famous until the next shooting: A few months? Weeks? Good luck buying guns in Korea/Japan (or any country[1] for that matter) as a tourist, or smuggling them in. It's significantly easier to get guns where you normally reside. [1] Except maybe the US. Is the gunshow exemption still around?
- javagram 7y ago
  There’s no gun show exemption. There’s a private sale exemption, because the law doesn’t allow private sellers to access the background check system. Registered FFL holders selling guns at a show have to do the same background checks they’d do anywhere else.
- ufmace 7y ago
  There never was a gunshow exemption. Federally licensed dealers must follow the same process to sell a gun no matter where they do it - at their brick-and-mortar store, at a gunshow, or in a parking lot. Individuals can sell a personally owned firearm to anyone in the same state with no check, and where the sale is made has no relevance.
millstone 7y ago
What's your diagnosis?
johnmarcus 7y ago
or in this case...hours. :sigh:
jlawson 7y ago
Your premise is wrong. Mass shootings and killings happen across the globe at rates comparable to America. America is exceptional only in its population, which obviously increases the number of events without increasing their prevalence, and in its proximity to you personally, which increases how much you hear about American events versus other events. Even Polifact has fact-checked this and found that America is not particularly exceptional [0]. By this study, it's not even in the top 10. [1] And just off the top of my head, there were two mass killings recently in Japan. A guy burned down an animation studio and killed 35 people. Before that, a guy stabbed a bunch of kids to death near a subway station in Tokyo a few months ago. [0] https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/jun/22/barack-obama/barack-obama-correct-mass-killings-dont-happen-oth/ https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/jun... [1a] https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/sorry-despite-gun-control-advocates-claims-u-s-isnt-the-worst-country-for-mass-shootings/ https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/sorry-despite-... [1b] https://crimeresearch.org/2015/06/comparing-death-rates-from-mass-public-shootings-in-the-us-and-europe/ https://crimeresearch.org/2015/06/comparing-death-rates-from...
- tapland 7y ago
  You know when you cherry pick countries with 1 attack and a small population, then stack Norway with 1, finland with 2 etc and proclaim "look these small places should be compared per capita with the US, 1 attack surely is enough data points", then don't look at the combined EU and state that gun legislation is fine? Maybe you even misrepresent (frequency, literally noone claims that mass killings cannot physically happen elsewhere, what the actual f) what the person you are 'fact checking' said and change nothing when it's pointed out to you? Yeah, that is what you just posted.
  - jlawson 7y ago
    It would be good if you actually looked at the study because it talks about dozens and dozens of countries. There is no cherry-picking and it is not a one-to-one comparison with one other country.
    - 7y ago
buzzerbetrayed 7y ago
> It’s not the media. It’s not attention-seeking. It may not be these things alone. But they do contribute. The number of copy-cat crimes is a pretty clear indication of that.
Mirioron 7y ago
>In every other, let's say, G20 country, someone shooting up a shopping mall and killing 20 will absolutely make national news - they will talk about it for months and it will be ranked "top ten worst news for $country in 2019", if not the absolute worst. I don't think this would apply to China and India. Every other country in the world has a lower national population than the US. Yet I doubt that your statement even applies to countries such as Brazil and Nigeria. You really do have to take population numbers into account when you look at what the media focuses on. No other western country even comes close to the population the US has, so it gives the impression that the US is somehow much worse.
- rsynnott 7y ago
  It looks like there’ve been about four mass shootings in China since 1990; a couple criminal (robbery-related), one terrorist, one random. Of course, information out of China isn’t that reliable, you could argue. The EU as a whole is considerably bigger than the US, and every year or so there’s a mass shooting or other mass killing. And it’s huge news for a long time. The UK has about a fifth as many people as the US, and this century has had five mass killings (one of which involved guns). The US rate and attitude really is abnormal. Edit: It’s also worth noting that the vast majority of European mass killing incidents are terroristic; the “someone just shoots a bunch of people for no particularly discernible reason” thing is really, really rare. The Texas shooting (terroristic) would be extremely shocking in any European country and would dominate the news for a long time. But the Ohio one (looks non-terroristic) would probably have an even bigger impact and would likely lead to tightening of gun laws etc (the Dunblane massacre lead to the banning of almost all handguns in the UK, for instance).
  - umvi 7y ago
    Well it turns out gun crime under totalitarian regimes is usually pretty low. So it's not very useful to say things like "Look at North Korea! They have way lower gun deaths and mass shootings rates than America!" If you trade all of your freedoms for securities, you too can have a totalitarian regime that keeps you safe. It's a "slippery" slope that can take centuries, but you just keep losing a few freedoms here, a few there, and pretty soon your monolithic monstrosity of a government holds all the cards.
RomanBob 7y ago
The "do it for my 5 minutes of fame" narrative is mostly wrong. It is meant to denigrade the shooters. If you read tarrant's manifesto, for example, his motivation is entirely racial/political. He thinks white people is being destroyed, and he lashes out against his enemies. If people's grievances, real or not, are not addressed. They will lash out. Calling them racist, stupid, xenophobes, losers, mentally ill or whatever else will not stop the tide of blood.

gruez 7y ago

>In other words, if anyone is aiming for notoriety, shooting up people in Seoul or Tokyo will give you an eternal place in national zeitgeist, while in America you will be famous until the next shooting: A few months? Weeks? Good luck buying guns in Korea/Japan (or any country[1] for that matter) as a tourist, or smuggling them in. It's significantly easier to get guns where you normally reside. [1] Except maybe the US. Is the gunshow exemption still around?

javagram 7y ago
There’s no gun show exemption. There’s a private sale exemption, because the law doesn’t allow private sellers to access the background check system. Registered FFL holders selling guns at a show have to do the same background checks they’d do anywhere else.
ufmace 7y ago
There never was a gunshow exemption. Federally licensed dealers must follow the same process to sell a gun no matter where they do it - at their brick-and-mortar store, at a gunshow, or in a parking lot. Individuals can sell a personally owned firearm to anyone in the same state with no check, and where the sale is made has no relevance.

millstone 7y ago

What's your diagnosis?

johnmarcus 7y ago

or in this case...hours. :sigh:

jlawson 7y ago

Your premise is wrong. Mass shootings and killings happen across the globe at rates comparable to America. America is exceptional only in its population, which obviously increases the number of events without increasing their prevalence, and in its proximity to you personally, which increases how much you hear about American events versus other events. Even Polifact has fact-checked this and found that America is not particularly exceptional [0]. By this study, it's not even in the top 10. [1] And just off the top of my head, there were two mass killings recently in Japan. A guy burned down an animation studio and killed 35 people. Before that, a guy stabbed a bunch of kids to death near a subway station in Tokyo a few months ago. [0] https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/jun/22/barack-obama/barack-obama-correct-mass-killings-dont-happen-oth/ https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/jun... [1a] https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/sorry-despite-gun-control-advocates-claims-u-s-isnt-the-worst-country-for-mass-shootings/ https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/sorry-despite-... [1b] https://crimeresearch.org/2015/06/comparing-death-rates-from-mass-public-shootings-in-the-us-and-europe/ https://crimeresearch.org/2015/06/comparing-death-rates-from...

tapland 7y ago
You know when you cherry pick countries with 1 attack and a small population, then stack Norway with 1, finland with 2 etc and proclaim "look these small places should be compared per capita with the US, 1 attack surely is enough data points", then don't look at the combined EU and state that gun legislation is fine? Maybe you even misrepresent (frequency, literally noone claims that mass killings cannot physically happen elsewhere, what the actual f) what the person you are 'fact checking' said and change nothing when it's pointed out to you? Yeah, that is what you just posted.
- jlawson 7y ago
  It would be good if you actually looked at the study because it talks about dozens and dozens of countries. There is no cherry-picking and it is not a one-to-one comparison with one other country.
  - 7y ago

buzzerbetrayed 7y ago

> It’s not the media. It’s not attention-seeking. It may not be these things alone. But they do contribute. The number of copy-cat crimes is a pretty clear indication of that.

Mirioron 7y ago

>In every other, let's say, G20 country, someone shooting up a shopping mall and killing 20 will absolutely make national news - they will talk about it for months and it will be ranked "top ten worst news for $country in 2019", if not the absolute worst. I don't think this would apply to China and India. Every other country in the world has a lower national population than the US. Yet I doubt that your statement even applies to countries such as Brazil and Nigeria. You really do have to take population numbers into account when you look at what the media focuses on. No other western country even comes close to the population the US has, so it gives the impression that the US is somehow much worse.

rsynnott 7y ago
It looks like there’ve been about four mass shootings in China since 1990; a couple criminal (robbery-related), one terrorist, one random. Of course, information out of China isn’t that reliable, you could argue. The EU as a whole is considerably bigger than the US, and every year or so there’s a mass shooting or other mass killing. And it’s huge news for a long time. The UK has about a fifth as many people as the US, and this century has had five mass killings (one of which involved guns). The US rate and attitude really is abnormal. Edit: It’s also worth noting that the vast majority of European mass killing incidents are terroristic; the “someone just shoots a bunch of people for no particularly discernible reason” thing is really, really rare. The Texas shooting (terroristic) would be extremely shocking in any European country and would dominate the news for a long time. But the Ohio one (looks non-terroristic) would probably have an even bigger impact and would likely lead to tightening of gun laws etc (the Dunblane massacre lead to the banning of almost all handguns in the UK, for instance).
- umvi 7y ago
  Well it turns out gun crime under totalitarian regimes is usually pretty low. So it's not very useful to say things like "Look at North Korea! They have way lower gun deaths and mass shootings rates than America!" If you trade all of your freedoms for securities, you too can have a totalitarian regime that keeps you safe. It's a "slippery" slope that can take centuries, but you just keep losing a few freedoms here, a few there, and pretty soon your monolithic monstrosity of a government holds all the cards.

RomanBob 7y ago

The "do it for my 5 minutes of fame" narrative is mostly wrong. It is meant to denigrade the shooters. If you read tarrant's manifesto, for example, his motivation is entirely racial/political. He thinks white people is being destroyed, and he lashes out against his enemies. If people's grievances, real or not, are not addressed. They will lash out. Calling them racist, stupid, xenophobes, losers, mentally ill or whatever else will not stop the tide of blood.