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> Mass shootings (generally) don't kill that many people. They are scary, yes, but not that deadly (statistically). Keep it local news, don't The problem is th

> Mass shootings (generally) don't kill that many people. They are scary, yes, but not that deadly (statistically). Keep it local news, don't The problem is there is a simmering domestic nationalistic terrorism threat to the country - and that is news. The killer in TX directly referenced it, as did very many of the prior mass-murders of recent. That is noteworthy, and fundamentally different from people killed in a gas station robbery. This rising domestic terrorism is fed and incited by nationalistic groups who have explicitly stated this as their plans and goals. Yes the media could adjust how they report it, but that's not the root problem here. It's an intentionally fostered growing domestic nationalist terrorism.

colordrops 7y ago
Can you cite evidence for this? My understanding is that deaths due to mass shootings hasn't really changed since the 70s, but rather the media coverage has expanded.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- RobAtticus 7y ago
  That seems unlikely. The first graph[1] on this Wiki[2] article shows from 1982 until 2017 -- so not the exact range you mentioned -- but it shows that mass shooting deaths are higher today than decades ago. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shootings_in_the_United_States#/media/File:Total_deaths_in_US_mass_shootings.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shootings_in_the_United_S... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shootings_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shootings_in_the_United_S...
  - mirimir 7y ago
    Sure, but the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995 "killed at least 168 people, [and] injured more than 680 others".[0] And annual traffic deaths were 50K-35K during the 90s through the 01s.[1] 0) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing 1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_traffic_deaths_per_VMT,_VMT,_per_capita,_and_total_annual_deaths.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_traffic_deaths_per_VMT...
    - jnbiche 7y ago
      It should go without saying, but the Okahoma City bombing wasn't a mass shooting, which is what is being discussed. And what's your point about traffic deaths? By that logic, heart disease killed more people over that interval, should we stop caring about traffic deaths?
      - mirimir 7y ago
        Well, generically the topic is domestic terrorism. I know that I'm verging on whataboutism. But there is the tendency to amplify outrage based on public sympathies. I worry lots more about official government violence. Consider deaths of US troops in Iraq during the mid 00s. About 800-900 per year.[0] Or far worse, deaths of Iraqis, which exceeded 20K per year during that period.[1] The same issues that are driving mass shootings will likely result in another major war. That's the thing to worry about. 0) https://www.statista.com/statistics/263798/american-soldiers-killed-in-iraq/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/263798/american-soldiers... 1) https://www.statista.com/statistics/269729/documented-civilian-deaths-in-iraq-war-since-2003/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/269729/documented-civili...
    - siidooloo 7y ago
      Some people die from cancer, therefore we shouldn’t do anything about AIDs?
- phs318u 7y ago
  On what do you base your understanding?
  - colordrops 7y ago
    Ugh, I just realized that I saw some data on school shootings, not mass shootings in general. I will look for it.
tandem_bike 7y ago
This is a strong feeling you have, but I see no evidence for it. The media likes to talk more about ultra nationalist groups now than it did in the past, giving some sense that it's growing into a big problem, but where is the actual evidence. Seems more like a big narrative push, a puff of smoke in everyone's eyes. By many studies Americans overall are far less racist and more tolerant than they ever were. Things are actually improving on that front rather than deteriorating.
- lostlogin 7y ago
  I’d argue that the effort spent hunting Muslim terrorists at borders, museums, transit hubs etc is not justified when compared to the relative death toll from domestic ultranationalists/white supremacists.
preencabulator 7y ago
>Yes the media could adjust how they report it, but that's not the root problem here. It's an intentionally fostered growing domestic nationalist terrorism. Like any form of lone-wolf terrorism, these shootings are being perpetrated by individuals, with individual motivations. There's a compelling case that they're at least partially motivated or inspired by media coverage. We often hear that suicide is contagious. Some studies and commentators have suggested that murder-suicide might spread like noncriminal suicide. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/11/americas-mass-shooting-epidemic-contagious/545078/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/11/americas-... Columbine shooting reporter Dave Cullen has suggested some low-impact changes to media coverage which could have a positive effect. https://www.buzzfeed.com/davecullen/stop-naming-mass-shooters-in-reporting https://www.buzzfeed.com/davecullen/stop-naming-mass-shooter...
- anigbrowl 7y ago
  It's not really lone wolf terrorism; evidence suggests that most killers actually have a loose but persistent social network. Even though they may select the time, location, and specifics of their actions in private, they typically discuss the possibilities and general goals/tactics with others. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/1057610X.2017.1419554 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/1057610X.2017.1... Media coverage can make a difference but I think relatively few people just decide to do it based on news coverage. FBI data suggests a median planning time of 1-2 months and a median preparation time of a week. https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/pre-attack-behaviors-of-active-shooters-in-us-2000-2013.pdf/view https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/pre-attack-behaviors-of-... There is a community that actively celebrates, studies, and iterates on mass shootings for a variety of ends from political to psychic reasons.

colordrops 7y ago

Can you cite evidence for this? My understanding is that deaths due to mass shootings hasn't really changed since the 70s, but rather the media coverage has expanded.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
RobAtticus 7y ago
That seems unlikely. The first graph[1] on this Wiki[2] article shows from 1982 until 2017 -- so not the exact range you mentioned -- but it shows that mass shooting deaths are higher today than decades ago. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shootings_in_the_United_States#/media/File:Total_deaths_in_US_mass_shootings.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shootings_in_the_United_S... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shootings_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shootings_in_the_United_S...
- mirimir 7y ago
  Sure, but the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995 "killed at least 168 people, [and] injured more than 680 others".[0] And annual traffic deaths were 50K-35K during the 90s through the 01s.[1] 0) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing 1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_traffic_deaths_per_VMT,_VMT,_per_capita,_and_total_annual_deaths.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_traffic_deaths_per_VMT...
  - jnbiche 7y ago
    It should go without saying, but the Okahoma City bombing wasn't a mass shooting, which is what is being discussed. And what's your point about traffic deaths? By that logic, heart disease killed more people over that interval, should we stop caring about traffic deaths?
    - mirimir 7y ago
      Well, generically the topic is domestic terrorism. I know that I'm verging on whataboutism. But there is the tendency to amplify outrage based on public sympathies. I worry lots more about official government violence. Consider deaths of US troops in Iraq during the mid 00s. About 800-900 per year.[0] Or far worse, deaths of Iraqis, which exceeded 20K per year during that period.[1] The same issues that are driving mass shootings will likely result in another major war. That's the thing to worry about. 0) https://www.statista.com/statistics/263798/american-soldiers-killed-in-iraq/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/263798/american-soldiers... 1) https://www.statista.com/statistics/269729/documented-civilian-deaths-in-iraq-war-since-2003/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/269729/documented-civili...
  - siidooloo 7y ago
    Some people die from cancer, therefore we shouldn’t do anything about AIDs?
phs318u 7y ago
On what do you base your understanding?
- colordrops 7y ago
  Ugh, I just realized that I saw some data on school shootings, not mass shootings in general. I will look for it.

tandem_bike 7y ago

This is a strong feeling you have, but I see no evidence for it. The media likes to talk more about ultra nationalist groups now than it did in the past, giving some sense that it's growing into a big problem, but where is the actual evidence. Seems more like a big narrative push, a puff of smoke in everyone's eyes. By many studies Americans overall are far less racist and more tolerant than they ever were. Things are actually improving on that front rather than deteriorating.

lostlogin 7y ago
I’d argue that the effort spent hunting Muslim terrorists at borders, museums, transit hubs etc is not justified when compared to the relative death toll from domestic ultranationalists/white supremacists.

preencabulator 7y ago

>Yes the media could adjust how they report it, but that's not the root problem here. It's an intentionally fostered growing domestic nationalist terrorism. Like any form of lone-wolf terrorism, these shootings are being perpetrated by individuals, with individual motivations. There's a compelling case that they're at least partially motivated or inspired by media coverage. We often hear that suicide is contagious. Some studies and commentators have suggested that murder-suicide might spread like noncriminal suicide. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/11/americas-mass-shooting-epidemic-contagious/545078/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/11/americas-... Columbine shooting reporter Dave Cullen has suggested some low-impact changes to media coverage which could have a positive effect. https://www.buzzfeed.com/davecullen/stop-naming-mass-shooters-in-reporting https://www.buzzfeed.com/davecullen/stop-naming-mass-shooter...

anigbrowl 7y ago
It's not really lone wolf terrorism; evidence suggests that most killers actually have a loose but persistent social network. Even though they may select the time, location, and specifics of their actions in private, they typically discuss the possibilities and general goals/tactics with others. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/1057610X.2017.1419554 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/1057610X.2017.1... Media coverage can make a difference but I think relatively few people just decide to do it based on news coverage. FBI data suggests a median planning time of 1-2 months and a median preparation time of a week. https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/pre-attack-behaviors-of-active-shooters-in-us-2000-2013.pdf/view https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/pre-attack-behaviors-of-... There is a community that actively celebrates, studies, and iterates on mass shootings for a variety of ends from political to psychic reasons.