5 ms·

This is a great post and so spot on. At some point in my career my 'review prep' (which was the time I spent working on my own evaluation of my year at a compan

This is a great post and so spot on. At some point in my career my 'review prep' (which was the time I spent working on my own evaluation of my year at a company) became answering the question, "Do I still want to work here?" I categorize my 'review' in four sections (which are each rated at one of five levels, needs improvement, sometimes meets expectations, meets expectations, sometimes exceeds expectations, or consistently exceeds expectations) I start by reviewing how I'm being managed, I expect someone managing me to be clear in their expectations of my work product, provide resources when I have identified the need to complete jobs, can clearly articulate the problem I am expected to be solving, and can clearly articulate the criteria by which the solution will be evaluated. Second I review my co-workers, using a three axis evaluation, can I trust what they say to be accurate/honest, can I count on them to meet their commitments, and are they willing to teach me when I don't understand something and conversely learn when their is something they do not know. Third I review what level of support do I get to do my job. Am I provided with a workspace where I can get work done? Do have have the equipment I need to do what is being asked? Is my commute conducive to the hours required? And finally and most important, does this job allow me to balance work obligations and non-work obligations? Fourth I review whether or not the company mission, ethics, and culture is still one that I wish to be a part of. Am I proud of the company's mission? Do I believe that the leadership will make ethical calls even if doing so would mean less profit margin? Can I relate to and am I compatible with the values that my co-workers espouse and the actions they take? (this is the "company culture" theme, is it still a company that fits me culturally) A company that receives lower than a 3.0 rating I put on a 90 day "company improvement plan" (CIP). I bring issues to the leadership who are in a position to address the situations that I've found wanting and try to secure their commitment to change. If after 90 days they haven't been able to (if they choose not to they're done right away), then I "fire" the company and work to process my exit as expeditiously as possible.

stuntkite 7y ago
This is a much more streamlined version of the way I try to approach employment. I'm totally going to borrow this. Thanks!
j2kun 7y ago
This comment has prompted me to think more (and more clearly) about how I would evaluate the company I work for. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
sidlls 7y ago
Amazing; this is just about how I approach it, except I have a bit more slack for the "CIP": 90 days is not a long time at many organizations larger than a certain size (say, about 100 people). I'm generally content as long as progress is being made to improve at a reasonable pace, and few or no regressions occur.
- ChuckMcM 7y ago
  To be fair, the only time I saw a complete reversal of state in a short period of time was during the dot com implosion. The CEO at the company just lost it (he was under a lot of stress), and the working conditions went from meets to needs improvement remarkably quickly. And its possible to have one aspect being wonderful to compensate for another aspect which is not so great. For example the company mission might suck but you really like your manager and your co-workers.
jorblumesea 7y ago
I completely agree with this, but I often find that not everyone is in the same position to jump ship easily. Your attitude is often espoused by highly talented individual that could basically "work wherever". A personal anecdote from someone I work with. "Alice" is a technical project manager at a large company. She's been with the company 8 years. While she's been in the role, expectations on her have been unclear, she's been promoted above her skill level due to bureaucratic incompetence and has been poorly mentored and led. Now she wants to leave, but how? She can't pass an interview for the other big companies in the region, and she doesn't have many growth or learning opportunities in her current position. Anywhere else is a huge pay cut. Is she happy? Nope. But digging herself out of the hole is a difficult task. I am not disagreeing with you, but trying to communicate how the other half lives.
- ChuckMcM 7y ago
  That is absolutely true, and in the original article there was a mention of folks trapped by US visa rules (leave your job, go back to your origin country). To address your question though, if I were mentoring Alice I would ask which is more important to her, money or happiness? I learned long ago that it is useless to argue which is more important but it instructive to know in a person which one is key. If she thinks happiness is more important, then the advice would be to interview elsewhere for a spot where she could be happy and ignore the salary if it is sufficient to her to live on. If she thinks money is more important, then the advice would be to focus her personal development toward being able to demand the salary that she wants to be paid. The bottom line is that its easier to put up with poor working conditions when it is simply a stepping stone toward a different (ideally less poor) place.
  - AstralStorm 7y ago
    To a certain point, money is happiness. Maybe the solution is checking out and fighting for reduced hours, while doing fulfilling things with the extra money you wouldn't be able to get anywhere else. (While at the same time looking for another job.) Just try to not get fired in the meantime.
  - jorblumesea 7y ago
Sophistifunk 7y ago
This is excellent. We should all try to do something like this. The only time I've stopped an interview and told them "good luck but I'm out" is when I realised they're a hot-desking joint. I mean, sure there's is a price point at which I'll hot-desk, but strangely (since hot-desking is always about saving money no matter what other bollocks they dress it in), nobody's met it.
jedberg 7y ago
This comment is wonderful. As a company founder (and de-facto CEO), I'd love it if all of my employees did this every year (or even continuously!). I think I am going to steal this and make it part of an annual review process (once we get big enough to have those). I did notice however that one thing that isn't your list is your salary. I'm curious if that was intentional or not?
- ChuckMcM 7y ago
  Salary as a variable has changed over time; Initially of course there was a minimum to meet my goals. My target was to be able to live somewhere, cover my cost of living, pay down my debts, and save 10% of my salary in long term savings. Then as expenses started moving from being "in the future" to being "in the past" I was able to be more flexible on salary. It helps that I have never equated what I was paid with how much I was "worth." It also helps that I don't have a lot of innate materialism. Although the funny story there is when I went back to Los Angeles to visit my old roommate from college I was showing him a fancy laptop that I had saved up for an bought. He had a pretty crap laptop but had recently bought a nice late model Mercedes Benz. Meanwhile, I had a 10 year old car at that point. We laughed at how the two different areas of California encouraged different status symbols.
  - bb88 7y ago
    I usually ask the questions differently: "Is it worth being paid $X to work here?" "What is the likelihood I'll be paid $X elsewhere" And if they're paying a lot of money, I can tolerate the crappy working conditions -- I first heard of this a couple decades ago as "crying all the way to the bank." A CEO that comes in to fix a company has a similar question. "It's going to be a nightmare to turn this company around, is the pay worth it?"
    - xmprt 7y ago
      If the money doesn't really matter all that much to you then I suppose some people wouldn't be willing to sacrifice their happiness once their basic needs and wants are met.
bradlys 7y ago
Is this something you've always done or only something you've done as you've gained higher level positions? I'm imagining that compensation is always at some minimum satisfactory level as well (and it must be rather high unless you're wealthy or bought a home decades ago or live in some really LCOL area?). Do you only work at places that you truly want to work at from the get go? I can't imagine implementing this at an IC level at a startup. (Which is where I've been mostly) I could see it at some places where you could switch teams in a big company and not deal with those same people again. (thus not having to reinterview fully) I've found that people will change their ways very rarely unless your loss would ruin them. They're much happier to lose ICs than change.
- jedberg 7y ago
  At a startup seems like the best place to do this. It's where you can best answer the questions and where you can effect the most change.
- ChuckMcM 7y ago
  Not always, when I got out of school I just went to work. It helped that my wife was doing similar work (she was a computer programmer) and we compared notes about our jobs. Now I personally think getting married was a good choice in my life but for this conversation it was extremely valuable to have someone at a different company with whom I could be completely honest and exchange thoughts and ideas with. When my wife left Xerox for Tandem one of the books she got was called "Divorcing a Company." We both read it. I would say that book was when I stopped looking at companies being a "one way" kind of thing, either they want me or they don't. The book's thesis was that you are in a relationship with the company you work for, it can be a good relationship, and it can be an abusive relationship. Looking at your choice to leave, and the things that keep you from leaving, as you might a divorce from a spouse, can put into perspective who is more "at fault." I started thinking about why I was working at a company more critically at that point and then as time progressed developed a set of things that were the key factors in my job satisfaction. To this point, "They're much happier to lose ICs than change." I agree completely. And that is why for me it was important to accept that people who won't see a reasonable request for what it is, are not worth wasting your time with. I doubt I will die thinking "I wish I had worked for an abusive boss longer" :-)
rurban 7y ago
Can you please put your CIP idea into a nice blog post, so that I can refer to it more easily. The best post in a year.
- greenyoda 7y ago
  You can bookmark a comment on HN just as easily as a blog post. The "x hours ago" link in the comment header is a permanent link to the comment at the top of its own page, with its child comments below it. As an example, here's the link to that comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20609978 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20609978
jamisteven 7y ago
Pretty sure every gig ive ever had would not pass your nifty requirements above.

stuntkite 7y ago

This is a much more streamlined version of the way I try to approach employment. I'm totally going to borrow this. Thanks!

j2kun 7y ago

This comment has prompted me to think more (and more clearly) about how I would evaluate the company I work for. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

sidlls 7y ago

Amazing; this is just about how I approach it, except I have a bit more slack for the "CIP": 90 days is not a long time at many organizations larger than a certain size (say, about 100 people). I'm generally content as long as progress is being made to improve at a reasonable pace, and few or no regressions occur.

ChuckMcM 7y ago
To be fair, the only time I saw a complete reversal of state in a short period of time was during the dot com implosion. The CEO at the company just lost it (he was under a lot of stress), and the working conditions went from meets to needs improvement remarkably quickly. And its possible to have one aspect being wonderful to compensate for another aspect which is not so great. For example the company mission might suck but you really like your manager and your co-workers.

jorblumesea 7y ago

I completely agree with this, but I often find that not everyone is in the same position to jump ship easily. Your attitude is often espoused by highly talented individual that could basically "work wherever". A personal anecdote from someone I work with. "Alice" is a technical project manager at a large company. She's been with the company 8 years. While she's been in the role, expectations on her have been unclear, she's been promoted above her skill level due to bureaucratic incompetence and has been poorly mentored and led. Now she wants to leave, but how? She can't pass an interview for the other big companies in the region, and she doesn't have many growth or learning opportunities in her current position. Anywhere else is a huge pay cut. Is she happy? Nope. But digging herself out of the hole is a difficult task. I am not disagreeing with you, but trying to communicate how the other half lives.

ChuckMcM 7y ago
That is absolutely true, and in the original article there was a mention of folks trapped by US visa rules (leave your job, go back to your origin country). To address your question though, if I were mentoring Alice I would ask which is more important to her, money or happiness? I learned long ago that it is useless to argue which is more important but it instructive to know in a person which one is key. If she thinks happiness is more important, then the advice would be to interview elsewhere for a spot where she could be happy and ignore the salary if it is sufficient to her to live on. If she thinks money is more important, then the advice would be to focus her personal development toward being able to demand the salary that she wants to be paid. The bottom line is that its easier to put up with poor working conditions when it is simply a stepping stone toward a different (ideally less poor) place.
- AstralStorm 7y ago
  To a certain point, money is happiness. Maybe the solution is checking out and fighting for reduced hours, while doing fulfilling things with the extra money you wouldn't be able to get anywhere else. (While at the same time looking for another job.) Just try to not get fired in the meantime.
- jorblumesea 7y ago

Sophistifunk 7y ago

This is excellent. We should all try to do something like this. The only time I've stopped an interview and told them "good luck but I'm out" is when I realised they're a hot-desking joint. I mean, sure there's is a price point at which I'll hot-desk, but strangely (since hot-desking is always about saving money no matter what other bollocks they dress it in), nobody's met it.

jedberg 7y ago

This comment is wonderful. As a company founder (and de-facto CEO), I'd love it if all of my employees did this every year (or even continuously!). I think I am going to steal this and make it part of an annual review process (once we get big enough to have those). I did notice however that one thing that isn't your list is your salary. I'm curious if that was intentional or not?

ChuckMcM 7y ago
Salary as a variable has changed over time; Initially of course there was a minimum to meet my goals. My target was to be able to live somewhere, cover my cost of living, pay down my debts, and save 10% of my salary in long term savings. Then as expenses started moving from being "in the future" to being "in the past" I was able to be more flexible on salary. It helps that I have never equated what I was paid with how much I was "worth." It also helps that I don't have a lot of innate materialism. Although the funny story there is when I went back to Los Angeles to visit my old roommate from college I was showing him a fancy laptop that I had saved up for an bought. He had a pretty crap laptop but had recently bought a nice late model Mercedes Benz. Meanwhile, I had a 10 year old car at that point. We laughed at how the two different areas of California encouraged different status symbols.
- bb88 7y ago
  I usually ask the questions differently: "Is it worth being paid $X to work here?" "What is the likelihood I'll be paid $X elsewhere" And if they're paying a lot of money, I can tolerate the crappy working conditions -- I first heard of this a couple decades ago as "crying all the way to the bank." A CEO that comes in to fix a company has a similar question. "It's going to be a nightmare to turn this company around, is the pay worth it?"
  - xmprt 7y ago
    If the money doesn't really matter all that much to you then I suppose some people wouldn't be willing to sacrifice their happiness once their basic needs and wants are met.

bradlys 7y ago

Is this something you've always done or only something you've done as you've gained higher level positions? I'm imagining that compensation is always at some minimum satisfactory level as well (and it must be rather high unless you're wealthy or bought a home decades ago or live in some really LCOL area?). Do you only work at places that you truly want to work at from the get go? I can't imagine implementing this at an IC level at a startup. (Which is where I've been mostly) I could see it at some places where you could switch teams in a big company and not deal with those same people again. (thus not having to reinterview fully) I've found that people will change their ways very rarely unless your loss would ruin them. They're much happier to lose ICs than change.

jedberg 7y ago
At a startup seems like the best place to do this. It's where you can best answer the questions and where you can effect the most change.
ChuckMcM 7y ago
Not always, when I got out of school I just went to work. It helped that my wife was doing similar work (she was a computer programmer) and we compared notes about our jobs. Now I personally think getting married was a good choice in my life but for this conversation it was extremely valuable to have someone at a different company with whom I could be completely honest and exchange thoughts and ideas with. When my wife left Xerox for Tandem one of the books she got was called "Divorcing a Company." We both read it. I would say that book was when I stopped looking at companies being a "one way" kind of thing, either they want me or they don't. The book's thesis was that you are in a relationship with the company you work for, it can be a good relationship, and it can be an abusive relationship. Looking at your choice to leave, and the things that keep you from leaving, as you might a divorce from a spouse, can put into perspective who is more "at fault." I started thinking about why I was working at a company more critically at that point and then as time progressed developed a set of things that were the key factors in my job satisfaction. To this point, "They're much happier to lose ICs than change." I agree completely. And that is why for me it was important to accept that people who won't see a reasonable request for what it is, are not worth wasting your time with. I doubt I will die thinking "I wish I had worked for an abusive boss longer" :-)

rurban 7y ago

Can you please put your CIP idea into a nice blog post, so that I can refer to it more easily. The best post in a year.

greenyoda 7y ago
You can bookmark a comment on HN just as easily as a blog post. The "x hours ago" link in the comment header is a permanent link to the comment at the top of its own page, with its child comments below it. As an example, here's the link to that comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20609978 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20609978

jamisteven 7y ago

Pretty sure every gig ive ever had would not pass your nifty requirements above.