4 ms·

Throwaway account for obvious reasons. I’m mid-way through my first experience with this. Some warning flags to add for anyone wondering if it’s them or you:

Throwaway account for obvious reasons. I’m mid-way through my first experience with this. Some warning flags to add for anyone wondering if it’s them or you: - You’re beginning to wonder if it’s you that’s crazy, despite successful previous roles. - Their conversation has moved from “we” to “I” (or “you” and “us”). - Your number of known unknowns (usually people- or business-based) suddenly spikes for no apparent reason - Other people become (comically) formulaic in their response to questions. - Feedback channels are quietly shut down because they’re “not really needed/too much process/etc” I’ve started thinking of it as “professional gaslighting”, though its motivations may not be that sinister. My main mistake was not listening to that feeling that “something is wrong”. It’s surprisingly prescient.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
mpweiher 7y ago
I've had that (the gaslighting) happen to me so many times. "You didn't do this assignment" "Er, yes I did, here it is" "Well, you didn't keep me up-to-date on it" "Er, here are my weekly status report e-mails" "But you know I don't read my e-mails" Huh? Another good one was the following: I had assigned one of my reports a task before going on vacation. During said vacation, my "manager" pulls said report from that task. Then afterwards dings me for that task not being completed. Huh? "We're not paying you your bonus" "Why?" "You have to know that yourself". "I do not, and no, that's not how this works" "I won't tell you" Fortunately that was in Germany, so not just crazy, but also illegal.
- hinkley 7y ago
  You know that landlord who tried to keep your deposit by dinging you on everything, especially normal wear and tear? Yeah, I've caught managers doing the same thing. I may have opportunity to call them on it coming up.
- DocTomoe 7y ago
  I'm intrigued: What part of German labour laws make it illegal to not tell you why your employer does not give you a voluntary payment (e.g.: A bonus)?
  - tatami 7y ago
    There are forms of voluntary payments, but a bonus is not one of them (despite its name). It's range is usually part of the contract. You can cheat around paying more than the minimum bonus by picking yearly targets (quantifiable like for sales) which are absurdly high. I never had a bonus, so please take this as 3rd hand information.
  - mpweiher 7y ago
    As the other commenter wrote: bonuses are variable compensation that is part of the negotiated contract/wage, so not at all 100% voluntary. So the employer can refuse to pay the bonus, but they have to give a valid reason. There are two levels to this: first, basic employment law, which places very hard limits on what you can do. Second, many companies (like this one) have agreements between the works council and the company, agreements that regulate these and other matters and become part of the employment contract, and are therefore also legally binding and enforceable. In all cases, the employer has to have valid, provable performance-related reasons, these have to be communicated to the employee in a timely fashion and the employee given a chance to improve their performance. In my case, management was so clueless that they knew none of this, they thought that bonuses were gifts they can shower on people they favour on a whim, just like a king to his subjects. It was a bit of a rude awakening. :-) They then tried to create a "case" retroactively, but apart from the fact that there was no case, it also wouldn't have mattered at that time.
- C1sc0cat 7y ago
  "I don't read my e-mails" sounds like a grievance case "Manager X is NCI because …"
  - mpweiher 7y ago
    What's NCI?
    - C1sc0cat 7y ago
      Non culpable incompetence - ie what hr put down when they sack you for not doing your job
bitshaker 7y ago
Don’t forget about these https://issendai.livejournal.com/572510.html https://issendai.livejournal.com/572510.html
- stuntkite 7y ago
  Very interesting read. The article has a dead link to something Anton LaVey wrote called "NOT ALL VAMPIRES SUCK BLOOD!". I'm not a Santanist and had never read it before, but it's pretty spot on. https://www.e-reading.club/chapter.php/73307/20/LaVey_-_The_Satanic_Bible.html https://www.e-reading.club/chapter.php/73307/20/LaVey_-_The_...
  - michaelchisari 7y ago
    And now I know where the "energy vampire" from What We Do In The Shadows draws inspiration. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nyZqO0AclU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nyZqO0AclU
    - stuntkite 7y ago
      That reminds me of the old video from The Onion called "Sony Releases New Stupid Piece Of Shit That Doesn't Fucking Work" from '09. "Invite your friends over to see if one of them can figure out this fucking god damned fucking time vampire." That was the first time I heard the term "time vampire" and have been using it ever since. I don't think this tangent is fully off topic. https://www.theonion.com/sony-releases-new-stupid-piece-of-shit-that-doesnt-fuck-1819594774 https://www.theonion.com/sony-releases-new-stupid-piece-of-s...
- pmiller2 7y ago
  That seems to perfectly describe a lot of smaller startups.
Cactus2018 7y ago
You might be living in the book Bad Blood by John Carreyrou.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

mpweiher 7y ago

I've had that (the gaslighting) happen to me so many times. "You didn't do this assignment" "Er, yes I did, here it is" "Well, you didn't keep me up-to-date on it" "Er, here are my weekly status report e-mails" "But you know I don't read my e-mails" Huh? Another good one was the following: I had assigned one of my reports a task before going on vacation. During said vacation, my "manager" pulls said report from that task. Then afterwards dings me for that task not being completed. Huh? "We're not paying you your bonus" "Why?" "You have to know that yourself". "I do not, and no, that's not how this works" "I won't tell you" Fortunately that was in Germany, so not just crazy, but also illegal.

hinkley 7y ago
You know that landlord who tried to keep your deposit by dinging you on everything, especially normal wear and tear? Yeah, I've caught managers doing the same thing. I may have opportunity to call them on it coming up.
DocTomoe 7y ago
I'm intrigued: What part of German labour laws make it illegal to not tell you why your employer does not give you a voluntary payment (e.g.: A bonus)?
- tatami 7y ago
  There are forms of voluntary payments, but a bonus is not one of them (despite its name). It's range is usually part of the contract. You can cheat around paying more than the minimum bonus by picking yearly targets (quantifiable like for sales) which are absurdly high. I never had a bonus, so please take this as 3rd hand information.
- mpweiher 7y ago
  As the other commenter wrote: bonuses are variable compensation that is part of the negotiated contract/wage, so not at all 100% voluntary. So the employer can refuse to pay the bonus, but they have to give a valid reason. There are two levels to this: first, basic employment law, which places very hard limits on what you can do. Second, many companies (like this one) have agreements between the works council and the company, agreements that regulate these and other matters and become part of the employment contract, and are therefore also legally binding and enforceable. In all cases, the employer has to have valid, provable performance-related reasons, these have to be communicated to the employee in a timely fashion and the employee given a chance to improve their performance. In my case, management was so clueless that they knew none of this, they thought that bonuses were gifts they can shower on people they favour on a whim, just like a king to his subjects. It was a bit of a rude awakening. :-) They then tried to create a "case" retroactively, but apart from the fact that there was no case, it also wouldn't have mattered at that time.
C1sc0cat 7y ago
"I don't read my e-mails" sounds like a grievance case "Manager X is NCI because …"
- mpweiher 7y ago
  What's NCI?
  - C1sc0cat 7y ago
    Non culpable incompetence - ie what hr put down when they sack you for not doing your job

bitshaker 7y ago

Don’t forget about these https://issendai.livejournal.com/572510.html https://issendai.livejournal.com/572510.html

stuntkite 7y ago
Very interesting read. The article has a dead link to something Anton LaVey wrote called "NOT ALL VAMPIRES SUCK BLOOD!". I'm not a Santanist and had never read it before, but it's pretty spot on. https://www.e-reading.club/chapter.php/73307/20/LaVey_-_The_Satanic_Bible.html https://www.e-reading.club/chapter.php/73307/20/LaVey_-_The_...
- michaelchisari 7y ago
  And now I know where the "energy vampire" from What We Do In The Shadows draws inspiration. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nyZqO0AclU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nyZqO0AclU
  - stuntkite 7y ago
    That reminds me of the old video from The Onion called "Sony Releases New Stupid Piece Of Shit That Doesn't Fucking Work" from '09. "Invite your friends over to see if one of them can figure out this fucking god damned fucking time vampire." That was the first time I heard the term "time vampire" and have been using it ever since. I don't think this tangent is fully off topic. https://www.theonion.com/sony-releases-new-stupid-piece-of-shit-that-doesnt-fuck-1819594774 https://www.theonion.com/sony-releases-new-stupid-piece-of-s...
pmiller2 7y ago
That seems to perfectly describe a lot of smaller startups.

Cactus2018 7y ago

You might be living in the book Bad Blood by John Carreyrou.