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One thing I've noticed over the years, is your propensity toward forcing other people toward your preference using the government. You are welcome to that view

One thing I've noticed over the years, is your propensity toward forcing other people toward your preference using the government. You are welcome to that view in your country (i.e. European), but that is so anti-American and illiberal that it's simplly not a universal truth. All countries do not need to operate in the same command-and-control way. We need diversity in governance. The USA is not some 'blood and soil' country with a history of aristocracy. We subsidize the national defense and drug R&D costs of your entire continent. Freedom lovers of all ethnicities recognize America's unique nature as the sole proponent of freedom, and they flock here.

TeMPOraL 7y ago
> One thing I've noticed over the years, is your propensity toward forcing other people toward your preference using the government. In my defense, it does not come from some innate desire to boss people around. The reason I mention governments often is simple: in a problem of prisonner's dilemma nature (so-called "coordination problem"), where a bunch of actors make rational decisions in their short-term interest at the detriment of everyone's long-term interest, the only way to force coordination and realize the long-term benefits is to have an external party enforcing the coordination, by penalizing the choice of short-term benefits. You'll observe that a lot of problems in the society have this nature, and usually the solution is government or other body that can set the rules recognized by all involved parties (and dispense punishments for breaking them). This is the classical solution to prisonner's dilemma (a mob boss punishing snitches), overfishing (regulatory body dispensing quotas), etc. It's not about what's European or American. It's about effective solutions to problems. In our times, we know enough about the dynamics of people interacting with each other at scale to recognize some common failure modes, like coordination problems, and ways to solve them.
- 18pfsmt 7y ago
  >It's not about what's European or American. In fact, it is. We have very different ideas about how to achieve outcomes (i.e. Old World vs. New World) we commonly share as goals. I absolutely disagree that "the solution is government." Europe hasn't achieved GDP growth over 1% for 20 years, and one has to wonder if it's because they over tax their middle class. I do not discount your sovereignty, only your right to assert it over our sovereignty. One size does not fit all, and many Americans are being fooled by the subsidies others receive. I appreciate your civility, and contributions to HN over the years, but also recognize the unAmerican nature of your ideas. What concerns me is that your ideas are infecting our young people. I recommend Democracy in America written by Tocqueville in ~1840. It's available for free on the internet. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_in_America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_in_America
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    > I appreciate your civility, and contributions to HN over the years, but also recognize the unAmerican nature of your ideas. What concerns me is that your ideas are infecting our young people. Call that payback for American ideas infecting whole generations on the "old continent" :). My generation grew up watching US television shows. Seriously though, HN may hosted by a US company, but the community is thoroughly international. Ideas from all around the world are present here, and are free to mix. That's, in my opinion, for the better. Neither Europe nor the US are perfect places, so one shouldn't be too attached to their current form and tradition. I believe that the job of each generation is to try and make the world better for next generations, and that involves exploring ideas to see if some may work better than the status quo. BTW., while you say I have European perspective, and I can't deny having some European bias by virtue of living there, the ideas I'm pushing I developed reading American thinkers. I really don't read much of our "domestic" stuff, and probably 90+% of my media and knowledge consumption is American. So you may be surprised that many of the things I say are already considered by people in your country. They're not "European" in nature. If I can take this chance to infect your mind with another idea, consider this: as an American, you care about your freedom (particularly the so-called "negative liberty"). But the free market doesn't care about your freedom at all. It cares about profits, and optimizes very strongly for that. It's not guaranteed that letting the market maximize profits unencumbered also maximizes the liberty of US citizens. The market doesn't care, and will just as happily give you liberty as it will take it away.
icebraining 7y ago
Can you eat Kinder Surprise eggs yet? This idea that the US is somehow specially "free" is more mythology than reality. We mostly have different regulations, that's all.
- 18pfsmt 7y ago
  I've frequently upvoted your comments over the years, as I don't understand Portugal or its culture (didn't you use to talk about ERP systems?). I appreciate the Old World, but do not care to replicate it. As it is frequently pointed out, America is quite young. We got to "wipe the slate clean." We do not have this European "blood and soil" shit, and despite popular rhetoric, had nothing to do with the foundation of slavery. More government = less freedom, by definition. We need diversity in governance (maybe a citizenship swap?).

TeMPOraL 7y ago

> One thing I've noticed over the years, is your propensity toward forcing other people toward your preference using the government. In my defense, it does not come from some innate desire to boss people around. The reason I mention governments often is simple: in a problem of prisonner's dilemma nature (so-called "coordination problem"), where a bunch of actors make rational decisions in their short-term interest at the detriment of everyone's long-term interest, the only way to force coordination and realize the long-term benefits is to have an external party enforcing the coordination, by penalizing the choice of short-term benefits. You'll observe that a lot of problems in the society have this nature, and usually the solution is government or other body that can set the rules recognized by all involved parties (and dispense punishments for breaking them). This is the classical solution to prisonner's dilemma (a mob boss punishing snitches), overfishing (regulatory body dispensing quotas), etc. It's not about what's European or American. It's about effective solutions to problems. In our times, we know enough about the dynamics of people interacting with each other at scale to recognize some common failure modes, like coordination problems, and ways to solve them.

18pfsmt 7y ago
>It's not about what's European or American. In fact, it is. We have very different ideas about how to achieve outcomes (i.e. Old World vs. New World) we commonly share as goals. I absolutely disagree that "the solution is government." Europe hasn't achieved GDP growth over 1% for 20 years, and one has to wonder if it's because they over tax their middle class. I do not discount your sovereignty, only your right to assert it over our sovereignty. One size does not fit all, and many Americans are being fooled by the subsidies others receive. I appreciate your civility, and contributions to HN over the years, but also recognize the unAmerican nature of your ideas. What concerns me is that your ideas are infecting our young people. I recommend Democracy in America written by Tocqueville in ~1840. It's available for free on the internet. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_in_America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_in_America
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  > I appreciate your civility, and contributions to HN over the years, but also recognize the unAmerican nature of your ideas. What concerns me is that your ideas are infecting our young people. Call that payback for American ideas infecting whole generations on the "old continent" :). My generation grew up watching US television shows. Seriously though, HN may hosted by a US company, but the community is thoroughly international. Ideas from all around the world are present here, and are free to mix. That's, in my opinion, for the better. Neither Europe nor the US are perfect places, so one shouldn't be too attached to their current form and tradition. I believe that the job of each generation is to try and make the world better for next generations, and that involves exploring ideas to see if some may work better than the status quo. BTW., while you say I have European perspective, and I can't deny having some European bias by virtue of living there, the ideas I'm pushing I developed reading American thinkers. I really don't read much of our "domestic" stuff, and probably 90+% of my media and knowledge consumption is American. So you may be surprised that many of the things I say are already considered by people in your country. They're not "European" in nature. If I can take this chance to infect your mind with another idea, consider this: as an American, you care about your freedom (particularly the so-called "negative liberty"). But the free market doesn't care about your freedom at all. It cares about profits, and optimizes very strongly for that. It's not guaranteed that letting the market maximize profits unencumbered also maximizes the liberty of US citizens. The market doesn't care, and will just as happily give you liberty as it will take it away.

icebraining 7y ago

Can you eat Kinder Surprise eggs yet? This idea that the US is somehow specially "free" is more mythology than reality. We mostly have different regulations, that's all.

18pfsmt 7y ago
I've frequently upvoted your comments over the years, as I don't understand Portugal or its culture (didn't you use to talk about ERP systems?). I appreciate the Old World, but do not care to replicate it. As it is frequently pointed out, America is quite young. We got to "wipe the slate clean." We do not have this European "blood and soil" shit, and despite popular rhetoric, had nothing to do with the foundation of slavery. More government = less freedom, by definition. We need diversity in governance (maybe a citizenship swap?).