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I never justified mass shootings or said it wasn't their fault. I was just stating that things are objectively bad for young men in America. Any kind of therapy

I never justified mass shootings or said it wasn't their fault. I was just stating that things are objectively bad for young men in America. Any kind of therapy or "support", proper raising, etc isnt addressing the issue. Have some introspection and look at your response, you attacked me right off the bat. What was so repulsive in my post? Are these men not allowed to recognize that their life sucks and its societies fault?

csydas 7y ago
Well, since I still go to a lot of secret-handshake-style message boards that get a lot of crossposting from the *chan boards and have such guys, my perspective is a bit different. I will not claim you don't and are wrong, but here's my perspective from what I see daily, both personally and professionally (as I offer as much advice as I can to help these guys get out of the spiral they're in) >...And its societies fault? [sic] Well, that's the problem as I see it. There is a huge issue where a lot of young men do not have healthy outlets for their frustrations and were sold a dream from the 90's-2010's that just doesn't really work anymore. The traditional path of high school > college > job + family isn't the norm anymore, as it just doesn't work well in a lot of regions of the US anymore (I'm from the US, so I'll focus on the US). But, the issue I have with the conversation that tends to happen when these message board groups pop up is that it results in a large number of posters completely removing their own agency from their lives and letting some extremely vile groups of persons tell them: - You're worthless - No one cares about you - You're a low-roll of genetics, and forever a failure - Society values everyone else above you - Corollary to the above point it's the fault of $minority_group_poster_dislikes that you are devalued - There's nothing you can do about it The list goes on. When I do manage to get a chance to talk to some of these guys, when the memes stop and the copy/pasta has run out and you just start getting their own words and responses, you start to realize that what you have is a bunch of people disappointed with themselves, lacking a positive support structure and proper guidance on things that employers, friends, potential partners, and society in general has weird quirks on. The biggest complaint I see is that "no one will hire me because I'm an adult white male", but when we get past the rhetoric they've been spoon-fed and finally get a look at their resume or do a mock interview, the problem is clear, and not to put the blame squarely on them, but it __is that they don't know how to present themselves__. They're shy, they're embarrassed, and they curl up defensively as a result. The message of "it's everyone else's fault but mine" is convenient, and again, this isn't to put the blame squarely on the individuals. US society has failed us in a lot of ways. I stupidly took a literature major in University, and midway through went to a few career fairs focusing on how to get a job because I was getting worried on how I would ever convince someone to hire me with a literature degree. The advisor, while quite nice and pleasant, gave me some awful advice about keyword spamming, phrases that are "guaranteed to work", and so on. Talking with actual recruiters and hiring boards later on, I found out that all of that stuff was non-sense, and instead I just needed to learn how to sell myself and show what I could do, without wasting the recruiter/interviewer's time. Now that I handle interviews as one of the main components of my work, I can see how badly in this area we set __all__ young people up for in this respect. I got lucky, because I could see the forest so to speak, figured out quickly how to talk to employers, how to talk to interviewers, and how to up-talk what I've done without coming off as arrogant. Others are not as lucky. This is just one example, but the core problem is the same; you have a group of young people (men in this case) that just don't know how to both protect (or even have) their own self-identity while still participating in society at large. The communities online that spew this stupid rhetoric and vitriol are the Jim Jones' of the 21st century, and they're just as toxic, and now dangerous apparently. So yeah, society has some failings, but we also have a group of people who are diving head first into a dark spiral that just reinforces the negative feelings and they give away their agency over themselves willingly to some ass who wants to sell them something, or even worse, just wants to make people miserable. At some point these people need to realize that they are doing a lot of this to themselves needlessly, and they can learn to handle the crap hand that society gives all of us. We won't all be millionaires, but it's got to be better than being broke and unemployed posting pictures about how miserable and worthless you are while someone feeds gross propaganda into your head.
- ardani 7y ago
  I think part of the problem is software that encourages continuous streams of soon-to-be-discarded information. Procedural/AI content is part culprit here - every piece of information on the Internet comes with a bunch of chaff around it. For all I know, the only human input into modern news articles comes from the computers' entropy collector (/dev/random) picking up on network disturbances caused by human interference. To quote Mao Zedond, "the streets are littered with dried faggots, ready to be lit aflame". 8chan is like that, being on 8chan turns your mind into that and the software model causes it. Who's "smoking all those faggots"? The OS developers, the browser vendors and the server hosts. There's a reason we don't burn books! Reversible computing is underway but we don't have to wait for that. The zero-energy aspect - awesome, but what's much more important is the "no unplanned data loss" aspect - every bit is accounted for.
- KONAir 7y ago
  Last two paragraphs might as well be definition of internets-religion.
- Fnoord 7y ago
  The movie Romper Stomper [1] shows accurately how someone can get sucked into violence. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romper_Stomper https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romper_Stomper
  - rightbyte 7y ago
    It does? As I remember all the main characters are already violent at the begging of the film.
    - Fnoord 7y ago
      They're already on a path of hatred but in different degrees. I'd say one of them, the leader, drags them down into misery. The girl is a daddy issues 101. I felt she got dragged down the most, perhaps because I resonated with her the most as being clever.
  - brokenmachine 7y ago
solipsism 7y ago
It... seems like maybe you didn't read my post.

csydas 7y ago

Well, since I still go to a lot of secret-handshake-style message boards that get a lot of crossposting from the *chan boards and have such guys, my perspective is a bit different. I will not claim you don't and are wrong, but here's my perspective from what I see daily, both personally and professionally (as I offer as much advice as I can to help these guys get out of the spiral they're in) >...And its societies fault? [sic] Well, that's the problem as I see it. There is a huge issue where a lot of young men do not have healthy outlets for their frustrations and were sold a dream from the 90's-2010's that just doesn't really work anymore. The traditional path of high school > college > job + family isn't the norm anymore, as it just doesn't work well in a lot of regions of the US anymore (I'm from the US, so I'll focus on the US). But, the issue I have with the conversation that tends to happen when these message board groups pop up is that it results in a large number of posters completely removing their own agency from their lives and letting some extremely vile groups of persons tell them: - You're worthless - No one cares about you - You're a low-roll of genetics, and forever a failure - Society values everyone else above you - Corollary to the above point it's the fault of $minority_group_poster_dislikes that you are devalued - There's nothing you can do about it The list goes on. When I do manage to get a chance to talk to some of these guys, when the memes stop and the copy/pasta has run out and you just start getting their own words and responses, you start to realize that what you have is a bunch of people disappointed with themselves, lacking a positive support structure and proper guidance on things that employers, friends, potential partners, and society in general has weird quirks on. The biggest complaint I see is that "no one will hire me because I'm an adult white male", but when we get past the rhetoric they've been spoon-fed and finally get a look at their resume or do a mock interview, the problem is clear, and not to put the blame squarely on them, but it __is that they don't know how to present themselves__. They're shy, they're embarrassed, and they curl up defensively as a result. The message of "it's everyone else's fault but mine" is convenient, and again, this isn't to put the blame squarely on the individuals. US society has failed us in a lot of ways. I stupidly took a literature major in University, and midway through went to a few career fairs focusing on how to get a job because I was getting worried on how I would ever convince someone to hire me with a literature degree. The advisor, while quite nice and pleasant, gave me some awful advice about keyword spamming, phrases that are "guaranteed to work", and so on. Talking with actual recruiters and hiring boards later on, I found out that all of that stuff was non-sense, and instead I just needed to learn how to sell myself and show what I could do, without wasting the recruiter/interviewer's time. Now that I handle interviews as one of the main components of my work, I can see how badly in this area we set __all__ young people up for in this respect. I got lucky, because I could see the forest so to speak, figured out quickly how to talk to employers, how to talk to interviewers, and how to up-talk what I've done without coming off as arrogant. Others are not as lucky. This is just one example, but the core problem is the same; you have a group of young people (men in this case) that just don't know how to both protect (or even have) their own self-identity while still participating in society at large. The communities online that spew this stupid rhetoric and vitriol are the Jim Jones' of the 21st century, and they're just as toxic, and now dangerous apparently. So yeah, society has some failings, but we also have a group of people who are diving head first into a dark spiral that just reinforces the negative feelings and they give away their agency over themselves willingly to some ass who wants to sell them something, or even worse, just wants to make people miserable. At some point these people need to realize that they are doing a lot of this to themselves needlessly, and they can learn to handle the crap hand that society gives all of us. We won't all be millionaires, but it's got to be better than being broke and unemployed posting pictures about how miserable and worthless you are while someone feeds gross propaganda into your head.

ardani 7y ago
I think part of the problem is software that encourages continuous streams of soon-to-be-discarded information. Procedural/AI content is part culprit here - every piece of information on the Internet comes with a bunch of chaff around it. For all I know, the only human input into modern news articles comes from the computers' entropy collector (/dev/random) picking up on network disturbances caused by human interference. To quote Mao Zedond, "the streets are littered with dried faggots, ready to be lit aflame". 8chan is like that, being on 8chan turns your mind into that and the software model causes it. Who's "smoking all those faggots"? The OS developers, the browser vendors and the server hosts. There's a reason we don't burn books! Reversible computing is underway but we don't have to wait for that. The zero-energy aspect - awesome, but what's much more important is the "no unplanned data loss" aspect - every bit is accounted for.
KONAir 7y ago
Last two paragraphs might as well be definition of internets-religion.
Fnoord 7y ago
The movie Romper Stomper [1] shows accurately how someone can get sucked into violence. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romper_Stomper https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romper_Stomper
- rightbyte 7y ago
  It does? As I remember all the main characters are already violent at the begging of the film.
  - Fnoord 7y ago
    They're already on a path of hatred but in different degrees. I'd say one of them, the leader, drags them down into misery. The girl is a daddy issues 101. I felt she got dragged down the most, perhaps because I resonated with her the most as being clever.
- brokenmachine 7y ago

solipsism 7y ago

It... seems like maybe you didn't read my post.