5 ms·

ICE car owner here. I don't understand why you would ever want a vehicle that must be charged for over an hour at uncontrollable wait times for a charging spot,

by ascar 7y ago

ICE car owner here. I don't understand why you would ever want a vehicle that must be charged for over an hour at uncontrollable wait times for a charging spot, when you want to travel longer distances, instead of just having a car fueled in 5 minutes at a gas station, which are everywhere and with zero to minimal wait times. Just to rephrase your argument. I actually do understand the benefits of an EV, but you definitely give up some freedom with it. And charging infrastructure will most likely never reach the level gasoline infrastructure is at, simply because charging takes much longer than pumping liquid in a tank. Further as mentioned in another answer, I would be legally unable to install a charger at home (even a non-fast-charging one). We are years, if not decades, away that the EV charging infrastructure can compete for long-distance travel and I wouldn't switch before. (yes, I travel regularly over 500km one way)

magicalhippo 7y ago
> yes, I travel regularly over 500km one way But many people don't. I travel more than 200km by car (range of my i3) only a few times a year. And for all those other days, having a charger at home is just soooo nice compared to having to frequently waste time at gas stations.
_ph_ 7y ago
First of all, you don't have to charge for over an hour, a Tesla Model 3 charges between 20 and 40 minutes, the 20 with the new superchargers v3. That is reasonably close to refuel your car and take a bio-break. The wait times for a "charging spot" are as uncontrollable as the wait times before you get to the fuel pump. It is just a matter of supply and demand. But Tesla even shows you the free supercharging spots in the navigation system. I doubt, fuel stations offer this service. But this only matters on long distance travel over 4-500km as an electric car can charge from any electric outlet. If you charge your car over night, you will visit charging stations way less often than gas stations with a combustion engine car.
- ascar 7y ago
  And I explicitly mentioned that I can't charge at home and regularly travel over 500km. Also I can't expect there to be a charger at my destination. It was an answer to the blatantly phrased "i don't understand" of GP Fueling stations don't have to offer this service. At least in Germany I had never had to wait more than 5minutes for a spot with over 50.000km on the road so far. And if a station seemed utterly full, the next one is less than 10km away. However, friends with a Tesla have complained over fully occupied charging spots during long distance travel. So your 30min bio break can need another 30min of waiting. 30min of charging vs 5min of filling up gas, still needs 6 times more capacity to support the same number of vehicles. Also a 30min breaks invites you to leave the vehicle and go for food/whatever, causing you to occupy the charging spot longer than needed. Don't neglect that these Tesla Supercharger 3 stations are also expensive to build. Don't get me wrong, I do want to switch to an EV, even just because of the nicer driving experience, but there are legitimate downsides to it (currently). Talking those away with optimism is nothing but marketing talk.
  - _ph_ 7y ago
    Wether you have to wait for a spot to recharge is only a matter of available stalls. Tesla is quite good there and constantly is expanding their number of stalls. Currently most locactions have at least 10 charging stalls, so even if all are occupied, you don't have to way a full charging duration for the next free spot. If you leave a Tesla at a supercharger longer than needed for recharging, after 5 minutes you start paying per minute for your stay. So people are well motivated to return to their car reasonably quick. And yes, I agree, there are use szenarios where electric cars are not quite as comfortable as ICE vehicles. On the other side, if you drive a lot, the cost savings of an electric car could be significant and should be factored into the buying decision.
dilekz 7y ago
I know many Tesla owners here in the Netherlands that has never even TOUCHED a fast charging system. :) They just get home, stick it in the charger and in the morning go to work. That's literally IT. Also very low maintenance intervals.
radium3d 7y ago
In two or three years you'll have a EV option that can surpass your regular distance; and any legal hurdles to installing the required electrical systems are something that should be dealt with on state/national level and made illegal for your jurisdiction. By the way, "slow charging" only requires a regular power socket so no install required in most cases.

by ascar 7y ago

magicalhippo 7y ago

> yes, I travel regularly over 500km one way But many people don't. I travel more than 200km by car (range of my i3) only a few times a year. And for all those other days, having a charger at home is just soooo nice compared to having to frequently waste time at gas stations.

_ph_ 7y ago

First of all, you don't have to charge for over an hour, a Tesla Model 3 charges between 20 and 40 minutes, the 20 with the new superchargers v3. That is reasonably close to refuel your car and take a bio-break. The wait times for a "charging spot" are as uncontrollable as the wait times before you get to the fuel pump. It is just a matter of supply and demand. But Tesla even shows you the free supercharging spots in the navigation system. I doubt, fuel stations offer this service. But this only matters on long distance travel over 4-500km as an electric car can charge from any electric outlet. If you charge your car over night, you will visit charging stations way less often than gas stations with a combustion engine car.

ascar 7y ago
And I explicitly mentioned that I can't charge at home and regularly travel over 500km. Also I can't expect there to be a charger at my destination. It was an answer to the blatantly phrased "i don't understand" of GP Fueling stations don't have to offer this service. At least in Germany I had never had to wait more than 5minutes for a spot with over 50.000km on the road so far. And if a station seemed utterly full, the next one is less than 10km away. However, friends with a Tesla have complained over fully occupied charging spots during long distance travel. So your 30min bio break can need another 30min of waiting. 30min of charging vs 5min of filling up gas, still needs 6 times more capacity to support the same number of vehicles. Also a 30min breaks invites you to leave the vehicle and go for food/whatever, causing you to occupy the charging spot longer than needed. Don't neglect that these Tesla Supercharger 3 stations are also expensive to build. Don't get me wrong, I do want to switch to an EV, even just because of the nicer driving experience, but there are legitimate downsides to it (currently). Talking those away with optimism is nothing but marketing talk.
- _ph_ 7y ago
  Wether you have to wait for a spot to recharge is only a matter of available stalls. Tesla is quite good there and constantly is expanding their number of stalls. Currently most locactions have at least 10 charging stalls, so even if all are occupied, you don't have to way a full charging duration for the next free spot. If you leave a Tesla at a supercharger longer than needed for recharging, after 5 minutes you start paying per minute for your stay. So people are well motivated to return to their car reasonably quick. And yes, I agree, there are use szenarios where electric cars are not quite as comfortable as ICE vehicles. On the other side, if you drive a lot, the cost savings of an electric car could be significant and should be factored into the buying decision.

dilekz 7y ago

I know many Tesla owners here in the Netherlands that has never even TOUCHED a fast charging system. :) They just get home, stick it in the charger and in the morning go to work. That's literally IT. Also very low maintenance intervals.

radium3d 7y ago

In two or three years you'll have a EV option that can surpass your regular distance; and any legal hurdles to installing the required electrical systems are something that should be dealt with on state/national level and made illegal for your jurisdiction. By the way, "slow charging" only requires a regular power socket so no install required in most cases.