3 ms·

From the article, it's not clear to me how the investigation began...could it have started with a tip from Amazon? > A police detective last summer noticed tha

by cle 7y ago

From the article, it's not clear to me how the investigation began...could it have started with a tip from Amazon? > A police detective last summer noticed that one of the drivers had dozens of pawn shop transactions, and thus began an investigation that uncovered a theft ring that sold millions of dollars' worth of stolen goods on Amazon.com in the past six years, the FBI said. Why was a police detective looking at the driver's transactions? Would be interesting to know.

balls187 7y ago
They weren't looking at the drivers transactions. They were looking at the pawnshop transactions, and noticed the same person sold a large number of items.
- lonelappde 7y ago
  Do police regularly audit pawn shops sales under a KYC type law?
  - ra1n85 7y ago
    I had items stolen from my car one evening. When I filed a police report, I was asked to give serial numbers for the items - the police in my county maintained a shared database with all pawn shops for identifying stolen goods.
  - elliekelly 7y ago
    Yes. Patriot Act creates a centralized database of pawn shop transactions for law enforcement. I know homeland security periodically reviews transactions but I’m not sure whether local law enforcement does unless they have a reason to.
    - frankharv 7y ago
      Here in Virginia Beach the pawn shops have to send a daily report of transactions to the police department. This also applies to scrap yards. They must submit to authorities a daily report of all scrap received and by who. I don't know how this has passed legal muster. In the article they state: "Detectives also conducted undercover operations in which they sold new items in their original packaging to the shops, which accepted them no questions asked" So now Pawn Shops are required to interrogate their customers?
      - grepballsoffire 7y ago
        Stolen goods can be confiscated by police without any compensation for the pawn shop. Therefore it is in their interest to know where the customer got the item from, unless the shop is acting as a fence, as in this case.
      - vuln 7y ago
        Woah small world. I live in Virginia Beach too... :) Sorry for the off topic reply.
        frankharv 7y ago
        Back at ya. I am a Machinist so most of my waste is worth money. CHIPS! Brass, Copper, and Bronze if kept virgin can command good scrap rates. I can tell you how that has gone at work. Back in the old days, we all contributed and segregated bronze into a 55 gallon drum. When full, company vehicle takes scrap to scrapyard. So 50 percent lost off the top, but the rest was used to buy shop tools. We had nice accessories. Then management got greedy and wanted it all. Now we don't segregate or care about virgin material. Everybody loses. Crappy tools so people get hurt and less money for the scrap sold.
      - elliekelly 7y ago
        Oddly enough, pawn shops are considered “financial institutions” under the Bank Secrecy Act/Patriot Act. They actually might be even more regulated than traditional banks when it comes to KYC. I’ve never done any work for pawnshops but I’m pretty sure they need to get all the usual ID that a bank would _plus_ a physical description of the customer (height, weight, hair color, race, tattoos, etc.). Also, the Patriot Act is a major invasion of privacy. SCOTUS says it’s Constitutional but I think there would be riots in the streets if people really understood the kind of surveillance the average law-abiding citizen is subject to under the law.
  - balls187 7y ago
    That is a great question. I can speculate on a few things: * Pawn shop owners let police peruse their transaction lists whenever asks. Perhaps similar to how cops may look past low level crimes in order to make bigger cases. * Perhaps akin to police being able to affect traffic stops in areas with high crime, and/or high incidents of DUI's, the police are allowed to look at records as Pawnshops were a known vector for stolen property. * The police were investigating theft, where a stolen item showed up in a pawn-shop, and were lawfully reviewing the transaction records.
    - imroot 7y ago
      Pawn shop owners (if they're working within the law) do not really get a say -- we upload our records to a provider who pushes transactions to a state nexus center and if they want specific information (or video) from the transactions, we'll get a visit from the state police or a fax from the local police dept.
  - nooron 7y ago
    Yes, and the shops are required to post to a website called Leads Online.
  - imroot 7y ago
    It really depends on the location, and the items involved. Gun sales are always audited -- by both the local law enforcement, and the ATF/TTB/DHS. Electronics are generally only audited by the local law enforcement, and if there's something specific that they're looking for, they'll look daily/send officers to the pawn shop. I've had a break-in to my pawn shop before, and someone stole handguns and a rifle...before the ink was dry on the police report, there was someone that the law enforcement called "the gun whisperer" -- a guy from the ATF who specializes in stolen weapons from dealers -- and they had found the guy and recovered the stolen weapons in less than 72 hours. We are required to keep descriptors (Sex, Age, Hair, Height, Eyes, body type) in our customer database: we take it a step further by taking a copy of their Driver's License/ID and a copy of their thumbprint. Source: I own a pawnshop as one of my side businesses.
astura 7y ago
Pawn transactions, not delivery transactions. Police have access to pawn transactions and use them to investigate crimes. There's a crap ton of regulations around pawn shop transactions, they are open to the authorities. If you note your serial number of your MacBook and your MacBook is stolen then you fill out a police report with the serial number and your MacBook then if your MacBook is sold to a pawn shop then your MacBook would be recovered.

by cle 7y ago

balls187 7y ago

They weren't looking at the drivers transactions. They were looking at the pawnshop transactions, and noticed the same person sold a large number of items.

lonelappde 7y ago
Do police regularly audit pawn shops sales under a KYC type law?
- ra1n85 7y ago
  I had items stolen from my car one evening. When I filed a police report, I was asked to give serial numbers for the items - the police in my county maintained a shared database with all pawn shops for identifying stolen goods.
- elliekelly 7y ago
  Yes. Patriot Act creates a centralized database of pawn shop transactions for law enforcement. I know homeland security periodically reviews transactions but I’m not sure whether local law enforcement does unless they have a reason to.
  - frankharv 7y ago
    Here in Virginia Beach the pawn shops have to send a daily report of transactions to the police department. This also applies to scrap yards. They must submit to authorities a daily report of all scrap received and by who. I don't know how this has passed legal muster. In the article they state: "Detectives also conducted undercover operations in which they sold new items in their original packaging to the shops, which accepted them no questions asked" So now Pawn Shops are required to interrogate their customers?
    - grepballsoffire 7y ago
      Stolen goods can be confiscated by police without any compensation for the pawn shop. Therefore it is in their interest to know where the customer got the item from, unless the shop is acting as a fence, as in this case.
    - vuln 7y ago
      Woah small world. I live in Virginia Beach too... :) Sorry for the off topic reply.
      - frankharv 7y ago
        Back at ya. I am a Machinist so most of my waste is worth money. CHIPS! Brass, Copper, and Bronze if kept virgin can command good scrap rates. I can tell you how that has gone at work. Back in the old days, we all contributed and segregated bronze into a 55 gallon drum. When full, company vehicle takes scrap to scrapyard. So 50 percent lost off the top, but the rest was used to buy shop tools. We had nice accessories. Then management got greedy and wanted it all. Now we don't segregate or care about virgin material. Everybody loses. Crappy tools so people get hurt and less money for the scrap sold.
    - elliekelly 7y ago
      Oddly enough, pawn shops are considered “financial institutions” under the Bank Secrecy Act/Patriot Act. They actually might be even more regulated than traditional banks when it comes to KYC. I’ve never done any work for pawnshops but I’m pretty sure they need to get all the usual ID that a bank would _plus_ a physical description of the customer (height, weight, hair color, race, tattoos, etc.). Also, the Patriot Act is a major invasion of privacy. SCOTUS says it’s Constitutional but I think there would be riots in the streets if people really understood the kind of surveillance the average law-abiding citizen is subject to under the law.
- balls187 7y ago
  That is a great question. I can speculate on a few things: * Pawn shop owners let police peruse their transaction lists whenever asks. Perhaps similar to how cops may look past low level crimes in order to make bigger cases. * Perhaps akin to police being able to affect traffic stops in areas with high crime, and/or high incidents of DUI's, the police are allowed to look at records as Pawnshops were a known vector for stolen property. * The police were investigating theft, where a stolen item showed up in a pawn-shop, and were lawfully reviewing the transaction records.
  - imroot 7y ago
    Pawn shop owners (if they're working within the law) do not really get a say -- we upload our records to a provider who pushes transactions to a state nexus center and if they want specific information (or video) from the transactions, we'll get a visit from the state police or a fax from the local police dept.
- nooron 7y ago
  Yes, and the shops are required to post to a website called Leads Online.
- imroot 7y ago
  It really depends on the location, and the items involved. Gun sales are always audited -- by both the local law enforcement, and the ATF/TTB/DHS. Electronics are generally only audited by the local law enforcement, and if there's something specific that they're looking for, they'll look daily/send officers to the pawn shop. I've had a break-in to my pawn shop before, and someone stole handguns and a rifle...before the ink was dry on the police report, there was someone that the law enforcement called "the gun whisperer" -- a guy from the ATF who specializes in stolen weapons from dealers -- and they had found the guy and recovered the stolen weapons in less than 72 hours. We are required to keep descriptors (Sex, Age, Hair, Height, Eyes, body type) in our customer database: we take it a step further by taking a copy of their Driver's License/ID and a copy of their thumbprint. Source: I own a pawnshop as one of my side businesses.

astura 7y ago

Pawn transactions, not delivery transactions. Police have access to pawn transactions and use them to investigate crimes. There's a crap ton of regulations around pawn shop transactions, they are open to the authorities. If you note your serial number of your MacBook and your MacBook is stolen then you fill out a police report with the serial number and your MacBook then if your MacBook is sold to a pawn shop then your MacBook would be recovered.