5 ms·

Breakdown Palace: R.D. Laing’s radical asylum

23 points by zbentley 7y ago

B1FF_PSUVM 7y ago
(Excursion on the title) Curiously a search such as https://www.google.com/searchq=Breakdown+Palace https://www.google.com/searchq=Breakdown+Palace comes back with: "Showing results for Brokedown Palace / Search instead for Breakdown Palace" but the results are about a poorly rated movie, not the well-liked Steven Brust book. Culture fragmented, have we.
- el_benhameen 7y ago
  Could also be a play on the Grateful Dead’s “Brokedown Palace”.
  - SynthCann 7y ago
    Ding ding
dang 7y ago
https://www.madinamerica.com/2013/11/living-one-r-d-laings-post-kingsley-hall-households/ https://www.madinamerica.com/2013/11/living-one-r-d-laings-p... is a story that happened at one of the post-Kingsley Hall houses. It is one of the most remarkable things I've run across randomly on the internet (though it turns out to be an excerpt from a book). If you read it, don't bail before you reach the punch line. That the 20-year-old patient had read The Divided Self and specifically asked to be sent to this place indicates how famous Laing was at the peak of his celebrity.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
pizza 7y ago
Reading RD Laing was an important experience for me. I recommend the Divided Self, the Politics of Experience, and The Politics of the Family for others trying to work through their low points. If you want a sense of what the guy was like, here's a short 3 min video titled "Forgetting Depression": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKOxp2q2lss https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKOxp2q2lss Another good interview with him here. Probably recommend this one more, it really contrasts his approach and humanity from typical orthodoxy of the time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0ZvZAG_XRg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0ZvZAG_XRg
- jdietrich 7y ago
  >a sense of what the guy was like I feel obliged to point out that Laing was a notorious asshole in his personal life. https://www.theguardian.com/books/2008/jun/01/mentalhealth.society https://www.theguardian.com/books/2008/jun/01/mentalhealth.s...
  - pizza 7y ago
    Good point. Just goes to show that even someone who was renowned for analyzing how families can abuse one another was no exception.
  - TheOtherHobbes 7y ago
    I went to see him give a talk in London in the 80s. He was clearly drunk and not very coherent. It was sad.
DoreenMichele 7y ago
I have trouble imagining that the opening scene of this piece -- where Laing takes his clothes off and sits naked with a naked girl until she finally speaks after 200 days of not speaking -- would not result in this day and age in some kind of scandal or court case with accusations of sexual misconduct. Ronnie continues to push the notion that “sanity” is a social construct, and that behavior labeled “mentally ill” by the dominant culture is often behavior that’s rebellious with good reason. I think there is merit to this idea. Among other things, we conveniently label homeless people as "crazies" as a means to dismiss them and justify callous disregard for their welfare.
- Fellshard 7y ago
  You lattermost accusation is based on the idea that we label them 'crazies' to dismiss them, rather than noting that some homeless people are homeless because they suffer mental illness and are displaced from any place that would otherwise care for them, while other homeless people are homeless for very different reasons. I would neither recommend lumping homelessness into a single category like that, nor assuming that the vast majority of people call all homeless people 'crazies'. Neither generalization is helpful.
  - DoreenMichele 7y ago
    I don't quite know how to engage your comment. I frequently try to give voice to those who so often have no voice. A lot of people here recognize me and the role I try to play in that regard. I'm guessing you have no idea who I am. Years ago, I had a college class on Homelessness and Public Policy. I also spent 5.7 years homeless, during which time I was quite open on HN and elsewhere about my situation and views. I got back into housing September 8, 2017. I continue to write about homelessness. A paid piece I did while still homeless: https://www.ecnmy.org/engage/getting-a-bank-account-can-be-tricky-when-youre-homeless-so-heres-how-i-did-it/ https://www.ecnmy.org/engage/getting-a-bank-account-can-be-t... A piece a college student wrote about me after I got off the street: http://alexandralindelof.com/story-package/ http://alexandralindelof.com/story-package/ An article where I was interviewed, then misquoted and misgendered: https://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2017/sep/08/stringers-plastic-bag-ban-led-hep-health-crisis/ https://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2017/sep/08/stringers-pl... (Related correction written by me: https://sandiegohomelesssurvivalguide.blogspot.com/2017/09/for-record.html https://sandiegohomelesssurvivalguide.blogspot.com/2017/09/f...) My old homeless blog, most of it written while I was homeless: https://sandiegohomelesssurvivalguide.blogspot.com/ https://sandiegohomelesssurvivalguide.blogspot.com/ I don't remotely have a one dimensional view of homelessness. My observation that homeless people are often assumed to all be "crazies" as a dismissive tactic is based on years of experience with the topic.
foobiekr 7y ago
R. D. Laing is mentioned in Adam Curtis' "The Trap" as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trap_(TV_series) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trap_(TV_series)
alan-crowe 7y ago
The article dates this to not long after 1973. To put it into an international context, lobotomies were performed in the USA from 1936 until 1972 peeking in 1950 https://www.aier.org/article/how-government-prolonged-lobotomy https://www.aier.org/article/how-government-prolonged-loboto... R. D. Laing was reacting against horrifying practices. Viewing him in his historical context lets us see what drove him to be so radical.

23 points by zbentley 7y ago

(Excursion on the title) Curiously a search such as https://www.google.com/searchq=Breakdown+Palace https://www.google.com/searchq=Breakdown+Palace comes back with: "Showing results for Brokedown Palace / Search instead for Breakdown Palace" but the results are about a poorly rated movie, not the well-liked Steven Brust book. Culture fragmented, have we.

el_benhameen 7y ago
Could also be a play on the Grateful Dead’s “Brokedown Palace”.
- SynthCann 7y ago
  Ding ding

dang 7y ago

https://www.madinamerica.com/2013/11/living-one-r-d-laings-post-kingsley-hall-households/ https://www.madinamerica.com/2013/11/living-one-r-d-laings-p... is a story that happened at one of the post-Kingsley Hall houses. It is one of the most remarkable things I've run across randomly on the internet (though it turns out to be an excerpt from a book). If you read it, don't bail before you reach the punch line. That the 20-year-old patient had read The Divided Self and specifically asked to be sent to this place indicates how famous Laing was at the peak of his celebrity.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

pizza 7y ago

Reading RD Laing was an important experience for me. I recommend the Divided Self, the Politics of Experience, and The Politics of the Family for others trying to work through their low points. If you want a sense of what the guy was like, here's a short 3 min video titled "Forgetting Depression": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKOxp2q2lss https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKOxp2q2lss Another good interview with him here. Probably recommend this one more, it really contrasts his approach and humanity from typical orthodoxy of the time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0ZvZAG_XRg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0ZvZAG_XRg

jdietrich 7y ago
>a sense of what the guy was like I feel obliged to point out that Laing was a notorious asshole in his personal life. https://www.theguardian.com/books/2008/jun/01/mentalhealth.society https://www.theguardian.com/books/2008/jun/01/mentalhealth.s...
- pizza 7y ago
  Good point. Just goes to show that even someone who was renowned for analyzing how families can abuse one another was no exception.
- TheOtherHobbes 7y ago
  I went to see him give a talk in London in the 80s. He was clearly drunk and not very coherent. It was sad.

DoreenMichele 7y ago

I have trouble imagining that the opening scene of this piece -- where Laing takes his clothes off and sits naked with a naked girl until she finally speaks after 200 days of not speaking -- would not result in this day and age in some kind of scandal or court case with accusations of sexual misconduct. Ronnie continues to push the notion that “sanity” is a social construct, and that behavior labeled “mentally ill” by the dominant culture is often behavior that’s rebellious with good reason. I think there is merit to this idea. Among other things, we conveniently label homeless people as "crazies" as a means to dismiss them and justify callous disregard for their welfare.

Fellshard 7y ago
You lattermost accusation is based on the idea that we label them 'crazies' to dismiss them, rather than noting that some homeless people are homeless because they suffer mental illness and are displaced from any place that would otherwise care for them, while other homeless people are homeless for very different reasons. I would neither recommend lumping homelessness into a single category like that, nor assuming that the vast majority of people call all homeless people 'crazies'. Neither generalization is helpful.
- DoreenMichele 7y ago
  I don't quite know how to engage your comment. I frequently try to give voice to those who so often have no voice. A lot of people here recognize me and the role I try to play in that regard. I'm guessing you have no idea who I am. Years ago, I had a college class on Homelessness and Public Policy. I also spent 5.7 years homeless, during which time I was quite open on HN and elsewhere about my situation and views. I got back into housing September 8, 2017. I continue to write about homelessness. A paid piece I did while still homeless: https://www.ecnmy.org/engage/getting-a-bank-account-can-be-tricky-when-youre-homeless-so-heres-how-i-did-it/ https://www.ecnmy.org/engage/getting-a-bank-account-can-be-t... A piece a college student wrote about me after I got off the street: http://alexandralindelof.com/story-package/ http://alexandralindelof.com/story-package/ An article where I was interviewed, then misquoted and misgendered: https://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2017/sep/08/stringers-plastic-bag-ban-led-hep-health-crisis/ https://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2017/sep/08/stringers-pl... (Related correction written by me: https://sandiegohomelesssurvivalguide.blogspot.com/2017/09/for-record.html https://sandiegohomelesssurvivalguide.blogspot.com/2017/09/f...) My old homeless blog, most of it written while I was homeless: https://sandiegohomelesssurvivalguide.blogspot.com/ https://sandiegohomelesssurvivalguide.blogspot.com/ I don't remotely have a one dimensional view of homelessness. My observation that homeless people are often assumed to all be "crazies" as a dismissive tactic is based on years of experience with the topic.

foobiekr 7y ago

R. D. Laing is mentioned in Adam Curtis' "The Trap" as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trap_(TV_series) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trap_(TV_series)

alan-crowe 7y ago

The article dates this to not long after 1973. To put it into an international context, lobotomies were performed in the USA from 1936 until 1972 peeking in 1950 https://www.aier.org/article/how-government-prolonged-lobotomy https://www.aier.org/article/how-government-prolonged-loboto... R. D. Laing was reacting against horrifying practices. Viewing him in his historical context lets us see what drove him to be so radical.