2 ms·

I am employed and I earn my own money, but I am not truly "independent".

by dmaldona 7y ago

danharaj 7y ago
Well yes, we are all as such under capitalism. But it's a matter of degree.
- daenz 7y ago
  >under capitalism What economic system do you propose that has the most individual independence?
  - danharaj 7y ago
    One where I don't witness the majority of my peers doing pointless socially unnecessary work because profit is the dominant justification for most economic activity.
    - daenz 7y ago
      Does this system have a name? Where can I read more about this system that doesn't pressure anyone to work?
      - danharaj 7y ago
        Why do you think it yet exists? Do you think we've reached the end of history? I don't think we even know where to start. All of the greatest problems looming on our horizon are tied to how we organize production and consumption.
        daenz 7y ago
        >Why do you think it yet exists? Because I asked about it, and you answered by confidently describing it, instead of saying "it doesn't exist."
        danharaj 7y ago
        I described something by saying what it isn't. I think you understand the concept of looking for something having some idea of what it is and isn't, but not knowing exactly what it would be.
        mixedCase 7y ago
        To an outside reader, it sounds like you know exactly what it is but are trying to not call it by its name for some reason.
        atr_gz 7y ago
        No, it sounds like he knows what result he wants but doesn't know how to get there.
        rixed 7y ago
        To me, another outside reader, daenz sounded like the one who knew exactly what answer he wanted to hear, right from the start. This is actually a very strange question to ask that early in a conversation what name such a basic and legitimate but abstract desire could have.
- dmaldona 7y ago
  What I want to discuss is the underlying premise of these articles, that by woman being liberated from the burden of the family, they achieve a sort of independence that leads them to increased happiness. And furthermore, that this trend is nothing but the next step in societal evolution and previous models of organization are not only outdated, but a form of subjugation.
  - scooble 7y ago
    It is a bit odd. I suppose by this light, men's increased participation in home life and parenting represents a forgoing of their independence and an reduction in their happiness. This does not seem to be the case e.g. in Scandinavia.
mac01021 7y ago
What constitutes "true independence"? The OP means that if you earn your own money, then you do not depend on your spouse for income. This provides you with more freedom than you would otherwise have. Both because you can divorce and still have income, and because your spouse can no long argue "This money is earned entirely by me, so I have complete discretion over how it will be spent".

I am employed and I earn my own money, but I am not truly "independent".

danharaj 7y ago

Well yes, we are all as such under capitalism. But it's a matter of degree.

daenz 7y ago
>under capitalism What economic system do you propose that has the most individual independence?
- danharaj 7y ago
  One where I don't witness the majority of my peers doing pointless socially unnecessary work because profit is the dominant justification for most economic activity.
  - daenz 7y ago
    Does this system have a name? Where can I read more about this system that doesn't pressure anyone to work?
    - danharaj 7y ago
      Why do you think it yet exists? Do you think we've reached the end of history? I don't think we even know where to start. All of the greatest problems looming on our horizon are tied to how we organize production and consumption.
      - daenz 7y ago
        >Why do you think it yet exists? Because I asked about it, and you answered by confidently describing it, instead of saying "it doesn't exist."
        danharaj 7y ago
        I described something by saying what it isn't. I think you understand the concept of looking for something having some idea of what it is and isn't, but not knowing exactly what it would be.
        mixedCase 7y ago
        To an outside reader, it sounds like you know exactly what it is but are trying to not call it by its name for some reason.
        atr_gz 7y ago
        No, it sounds like he knows what result he wants but doesn't know how to get there.
        rixed 7y ago
        To me, another outside reader, daenz sounded like the one who knew exactly what answer he wanted to hear, right from the start. This is actually a very strange question to ask that early in a conversation what name such a basic and legitimate but abstract desire could have.
dmaldona 7y ago
What I want to discuss is the underlying premise of these articles, that by woman being liberated from the burden of the family, they achieve a sort of independence that leads them to increased happiness. And furthermore, that this trend is nothing but the next step in societal evolution and previous models of organization are not only outdated, but a form of subjugation.
- scooble 7y ago
  It is a bit odd. I suppose by this light, men's increased participation in home life and parenting represents a forgoing of their independence and an reduction in their happiness. This does not seem to be the case e.g. in Scandinavia.

mac01021 7y ago

What constitutes "true independence"? The OP means that if you earn your own money, then you do not depend on your spouse for income. This provides you with more freedom than you would otherwise have. Both because you can divorce and still have income, and because your spouse can no long argue "This money is earned entirely by me, so I have complete discretion over how it will be spent".