11 ms·

FBI: Delivery drivers involved in Amazon theft ring

143 points by georgecmu 7y ago

unnouinceput 7y ago
6 years, 10 millions. That's ~1.67 millions per year, in a local zone only. I get it overall Amazon has a lot of stuff going on, but you do run local reports too, and those managing that local warehouse(s) should've catch that before police did. This smells they had coverage from a higher up in there as well.
- ikeboy 7y ago
  They're not saying it all came from Amazon. Much of it seems to have been shoplifted from local stores.
jaclaz 7y ago
Last sentence in the article: >Amazon has several requirements for third-party sellers on its website: They must provide a business name, address, contact information, a valid credit card, and tax identity information. It doesn't seem like that difficult to comply.
- ikeboy 7y ago
  These days you need to verify photo ID as well.
  - doctorpangloss 7y ago
    What if the biggest source of profit in blue collar work is arbitraging / laundering identity?
- Buge 7y ago
  That's not really the last sentence in the article. There's an ad break, then a bit more stuff.
  - jaclaz 7y ago
    You are right, haven't noticed that, cannot correct/edit the previous post anymore, just imagine that there is "near the end of the article" instead of "last". Anyway, it seems to me very unlike a thorough "vetting" procedure for merchants that you are going to "host" on your platform, if the Author had used "a few" or "very few" instead of "several" it wouldn't have sound "strange" to me.
JudgeWapner 7y ago
Steal from Grandmas porch: labelled a "porch pirate", told by police "we don't respond to property crimes, fill out a police report online". Steal from the richest man in the world: FBI is on the case with military-grade weapons, tactics and surveillance.
- philip1209 7y ago
  This really comes down to the fact that, in this case, there was clear evidence that stolen goods, and hence the crime, crossed state lines.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- dymk 7y ago
  Really big organized crime is more important and gets more resources than small crime. Woah.
- kartan 7y ago
  > Steal from the richest man in the world: FBI is on the case with military-grade weapons, tactics and surveillance. Steal from the richest man in the world * that avoids paying taxes * : FBI is on the case with military-grade weapons, tactics and surveillance * paid by taxpayers *.
- learc83 7y ago
  This kind of thing probably solves many "porch pirate" cases where it was actually the delivery driver stealing the items.
- KibbutzDalia 7y ago
  In California, at least, Porch Pirates have the law on their side. California Voters overwhelmingly voted to end the "three strikes" laws, and also make any theft of less than $950 a misdemeanor. See https://ballotpedia.org/California_Proposition_47,_Reduced_Penalties_for_Some_Crimes_Initiative_(2014) https://ballotpedia.org/California_Proposition_47,_Reduced_P... This means you can steal packages from FedEx and UPS or Amazon deliveries from porches to your heart's content (not USPS because they are covered by federal law) and almost certainly never have to spend more than a day or two in jail if you're caught. The $950 limit was proposed because Californians thought it was "not fair" to be charged with a felony for stealing an iPhone. In this particular case here, Bezos makes his money back because the article indicated that the stolen items were being sold on Amazon! He'll get paid either way.
crazygringo 7y ago
How on earth did Amazon not catch this first, that it took a police officer to notice? Every month or so, run a report correlating customer reports of missing boxes or missing items in boxes, with all fulfillment and delivery people who handle it along the chain. If there are any strong statistical correlations which pop up, bingo -- you've probably got a thief. Tail them and catch them. Feels like delivery theft prevention 101, and so much benefit for so little cost.
- mathieuh 7y ago
  Implemented this on the UK’s road worthiness test system. We check for things like tests being completed in two seconds, dodgy pass rate etc. We actually had a leaderboard of the dodgiest garages when I was working on it
  - orf 7y ago
    Did anything happen to those garages? And out of interest, where they clustered around a particular part of the country? I’d imagine London was a hotspot.
    - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
      If it's anything like where I live then enforcement doesn't have enough resources to actively do anything so probably nothing unless/until they annoy off someone with the right connections to ask the enforcement people for a favor.
    - mathieuh 7y ago
      Yes, we sent Vehicle Examiners round as mystery shoppers. A lot of people seem to have this impression that MOT garages are all dodgy, but they get caught regularly. The machine learning piece of work on MOT is probably of a similar size to the actual app at this point (haven't worked on it for a couple of years). Was a great experience, DVSA was pretty much GDS's poster child at this point so we were using a lot of new and interesting tech.
- cle 7y ago
mehrdadn 7y ago
It was a little intriguing reading this after reading another article: https://www.npr.org/2019/07/30/746600105/1-in-4-food-delivery-drivers-admit-to-eating-your-food https://www.npr.org/2019/07/30/746600105/1-in-4-food-deliver... Is delivery drivers stealing from customers' orders the new thing?
- AJ007 7y ago
  If you look at how much the overall volume of deliveries has increased in the past year, it doesn’t seem abnormal. You have something with a very low barrier to entry, and plenty of alternatives to switch between. Contrast this with, for example, working for the US Postal Service. While companies like Uber may resist contractor background checks, when these contractors are doing things like raping your customers, suddenly those background checks may have protected your brand. My friend has had Amazon packages stolen before, by the delivery person, who thought that as long as he took a photo of the package on the door step he’d win the dispute. I guess he didn’t see the security camera.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- lonelappde 7y ago
  When Amazon launched in China, this was a major issue. An independent contractor courier would sign up, get a package, steal it, and disappear.
- boomboomsubban 7y ago
  The survey they mentioned had a clear goal of selling tamper proof containers, so I'd take that result with a grain of salt. The question "have you ever taken food from an order" is more ambiguous than you'd think. If a customer gave me some food. I may have answered yes. Or if some error had otherwise made the food undeliverable I may have said yes.
victor9000 7y ago
How did the FBI obtain access to pawnshop transactions? Because the article makes no mention of a court order, making it sound like they were on a fishing expedition.
- KC8ZKF 7y ago
  “According to the search warrant affidavit, two storefront businesses posing as pawn shops bought the goods from shoplifters, then had the items shipped to Amazon warehouses, where they were stored until sold online.”
- wbl 7y ago
  Remember Lester? Every pawnshop transaction is reported to the police department in some places to stop fencing and recover stolen property.
- ikeboy 7y ago
  There's a statewide database that every transaction gets reported to.
- balls187 7y ago
  The article mentions a search warrant, and that local police had first searched the records, which shown an anomaly, which triggered a local investigation. From the Article: > ...the FBI said in a search warrant affidavit unsealed last month > A police detective last summer noticed that one of the drivers had dozens of pawn shop transactions, and thus began an investigation... > The investigation began last summer when a police detective in Auburn, a south Seattle suburb, was perusing a record of pawn shop sales... It's not clear why the police were looking at the transaction records, but it's possible they were investigating a theft.
Animats 7y ago
Brings a new meaning to "Fulfilled by Amazon".
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
goldcd 7y ago
Like a few other commenters below have indicated - this is a confusing story. The "fencing" part seems clear. Pawnshops had load of transactions from same people. Pawnshops appeared to be solely flogging new items online, via Amazon - indicating that they weren't functioning as you'd suspect - and were fencing from these amazon drivers and other shop-lifters. What seems to entirely missing is "Where all this stuff came from?" Well the shoplifted stuff is on some books somewhere as 'shrinkage' - but the stuff that came off the back of an amazon truck??
- a3n 7y ago
  > The two contract delivery drivers working for Amazon had a clear-cut assignment: They were supposed to bring packages from a warehouse south of Seattle to a post office for shipping, or sometimes drive to Seattle-Tacoma International Airport to pick up items that were being returned to the company. They stole that stuff. It was stuff going to customers, or returns coming back from customers.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
Zanni 7y ago
How does a guy (Zghair) convicted of reckless driving get a job as a driver?
- philip1209 7y ago
  I bet the blame here is with one of the insurance companies, rather than the JW Logistics. If the driver can get insured at the same cost as somebody without a reckless driving charge, then there is probably limited downside for the company to hire him.
  - dmix 7y ago
    Is that the case with insuring delivery drivers or are you speculating?
  - Shivetya 7y ago
    well depending on your state it may never be reported properly if at all. A recent horrific crash in New Hampshire[1] that killed seven motorcyclist was caused by a driver who never should be on road but records were either not shared with other states, taken in from other states, or even left the bin they got filed in [2] simply because they just sat unprocessed. [1] https://www.npr.org/2019/06/22/735027835/pickup-truck-in-new-hampshire-collides-with-marine-motorcycle-group-leaving-7-de https://www.npr.org/2019/06/22/735027835/pickup-truck-in-new... [2] https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/nearly-900-drivers-suspended-in-wake-of-deadly-motorcycle-crash-in-new-hampshire/ar-AADUrxi?ocid=spartandhp https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/nearly-900-drivers-suspend...
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago
  Because reckless driving is a weak signal. It covers a huge spectrum of behavior. It should really be called "driving on the aggressive end of reasonable in the presence of a cop" because that describes more of the behavior it's written for than "reckless". Where I'm from it's what you get when they actually have no good reason to pull you over but did it anyway on a hunch that you look like you have drugs or something or if you're dumb enough to talk back at the cop. Sure, a few people are actually "reckless" but there are fancier charges with bigger fines that they actually get and that's what the insurance flags people on.
SynthCann 7y ago
Sounds about right for anything AMZL related.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

143 points by georgecmu 7y ago

6 years, 10 millions. That's ~1.67 millions per year, in a local zone only. I get it overall Amazon has a lot of stuff going on, but you do run local reports too, and those managing that local warehouse(s) should've catch that before police did. This smells they had coverage from a higher up in there as well.

ikeboy 7y ago
They're not saying it all came from Amazon. Much of it seems to have been shoplifted from local stores.

jaclaz 7y ago

Last sentence in the article: >Amazon has several requirements for third-party sellers on its website: They must provide a business name, address, contact information, a valid credit card, and tax identity information. It doesn't seem like that difficult to comply.

ikeboy 7y ago
These days you need to verify photo ID as well.
- doctorpangloss 7y ago
  What if the biggest source of profit in blue collar work is arbitraging / laundering identity?
Buge 7y ago
That's not really the last sentence in the article. There's an ad break, then a bit more stuff.
- jaclaz 7y ago
  You are right, haven't noticed that, cannot correct/edit the previous post anymore, just imagine that there is "near the end of the article" instead of "last". Anyway, it seems to me very unlike a thorough "vetting" procedure for merchants that you are going to "host" on your platform, if the Author had used "a few" or "very few" instead of "several" it wouldn't have sound "strange" to me.

JudgeWapner 7y ago

Steal from Grandmas porch: labelled a "porch pirate", told by police "we don't respond to property crimes, fill out a police report online". Steal from the richest man in the world: FBI is on the case with military-grade weapons, tactics and surveillance.

philip1209 7y ago
This really comes down to the fact that, in this case, there was clear evidence that stolen goods, and hence the crime, crossed state lines.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
dymk 7y ago
Really big organized crime is more important and gets more resources than small crime. Woah.
kartan 7y ago
> Steal from the richest man in the world: FBI is on the case with military-grade weapons, tactics and surveillance. Steal from the richest man in the world * that avoids paying taxes * : FBI is on the case with military-grade weapons, tactics and surveillance * paid by taxpayers *.
learc83 7y ago
This kind of thing probably solves many "porch pirate" cases where it was actually the delivery driver stealing the items.
KibbutzDalia 7y ago
In California, at least, Porch Pirates have the law on their side. California Voters overwhelmingly voted to end the "three strikes" laws, and also make any theft of less than $950 a misdemeanor. See https://ballotpedia.org/California_Proposition_47,_Reduced_Penalties_for_Some_Crimes_Initiative_(2014) https://ballotpedia.org/California_Proposition_47,_Reduced_P... This means you can steal packages from FedEx and UPS or Amazon deliveries from porches to your heart's content (not USPS because they are covered by federal law) and almost certainly never have to spend more than a day or two in jail if you're caught. The $950 limit was proposed because Californians thought it was "not fair" to be charged with a felony for stealing an iPhone. In this particular case here, Bezos makes his money back because the article indicated that the stolen items were being sold on Amazon! He'll get paid either way.

crazygringo 7y ago

How on earth did Amazon not catch this first, that it took a police officer to notice? Every month or so, run a report correlating customer reports of missing boxes or missing items in boxes, with all fulfillment and delivery people who handle it along the chain. If there are any strong statistical correlations which pop up, bingo -- you've probably got a thief. Tail them and catch them. Feels like delivery theft prevention 101, and so much benefit for so little cost.

mathieuh 7y ago
Implemented this on the UK’s road worthiness test system. We check for things like tests being completed in two seconds, dodgy pass rate etc. We actually had a leaderboard of the dodgiest garages when I was working on it
- orf 7y ago
  Did anything happen to those garages? And out of interest, where they clustered around a particular part of the country? I’d imagine London was a hotspot.
  - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
    If it's anything like where I live then enforcement doesn't have enough resources to actively do anything so probably nothing unless/until they annoy off someone with the right connections to ask the enforcement people for a favor.
  - mathieuh 7y ago
    Yes, we sent Vehicle Examiners round as mystery shoppers. A lot of people seem to have this impression that MOT garages are all dodgy, but they get caught regularly. The machine learning piece of work on MOT is probably of a similar size to the actual app at this point (haven't worked on it for a couple of years). Was a great experience, DVSA was pretty much GDS's poster child at this point so we were using a lot of new and interesting tech.
cle 7y ago

mehrdadn 7y ago

It was a little intriguing reading this after reading another article: https://www.npr.org/2019/07/30/746600105/1-in-4-food-delivery-drivers-admit-to-eating-your-food https://www.npr.org/2019/07/30/746600105/1-in-4-food-deliver... Is delivery drivers stealing from customers' orders the new thing?

AJ007 7y ago
If you look at how much the overall volume of deliveries has increased in the past year, it doesn’t seem abnormal. You have something with a very low barrier to entry, and plenty of alternatives to switch between. Contrast this with, for example, working for the US Postal Service. While companies like Uber may resist contractor background checks, when these contractors are doing things like raping your customers, suddenly those background checks may have protected your brand. My friend has had Amazon packages stolen before, by the delivery person, who thought that as long as he took a photo of the package on the door step he’d win the dispute. I guess he didn’t see the security camera.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
lonelappde 7y ago
When Amazon launched in China, this was a major issue. An independent contractor courier would sign up, get a package, steal it, and disappear.
boomboomsubban 7y ago
The survey they mentioned had a clear goal of selling tamper proof containers, so I'd take that result with a grain of salt. The question "have you ever taken food from an order" is more ambiguous than you'd think. If a customer gave me some food. I may have answered yes. Or if some error had otherwise made the food undeliverable I may have said yes.

victor9000 7y ago

How did the FBI obtain access to pawnshop transactions? Because the article makes no mention of a court order, making it sound like they were on a fishing expedition.

KC8ZKF 7y ago
“According to the search warrant affidavit, two storefront businesses posing as pawn shops bought the goods from shoplifters, then had the items shipped to Amazon warehouses, where they were stored until sold online.”
wbl 7y ago
Remember Lester? Every pawnshop transaction is reported to the police department in some places to stop fencing and recover stolen property.
ikeboy 7y ago
There's a statewide database that every transaction gets reported to.
balls187 7y ago
The article mentions a search warrant, and that local police had first searched the records, which shown an anomaly, which triggered a local investigation. From the Article: > ...the FBI said in a search warrant affidavit unsealed last month > A police detective last summer noticed that one of the drivers had dozens of pawn shop transactions, and thus began an investigation... > The investigation began last summer when a police detective in Auburn, a south Seattle suburb, was perusing a record of pawn shop sales... It's not clear why the police were looking at the transaction records, but it's possible they were investigating a theft.

Animats 7y ago

Brings a new meaning to "Fulfilled by Amazon".

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

goldcd 7y ago

Like a few other commenters below have indicated - this is a confusing story. The "fencing" part seems clear. Pawnshops had load of transactions from same people. Pawnshops appeared to be solely flogging new items online, via Amazon - indicating that they weren't functioning as you'd suspect - and were fencing from these amazon drivers and other shop-lifters. What seems to entirely missing is "Where all this stuff came from?" Well the shoplifted stuff is on some books somewhere as 'shrinkage' - but the stuff that came off the back of an amazon truck??

a3n 7y ago
> The two contract delivery drivers working for Amazon had a clear-cut assignment: They were supposed to bring packages from a warehouse south of Seattle to a post office for shipping, or sometimes drive to Seattle-Tacoma International Airport to pick up items that were being returned to the company. They stole that stuff. It was stuff going to customers, or returns coming back from customers.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

Zanni 7y ago

How does a guy (Zghair) convicted of reckless driving get a job as a driver?

philip1209 7y ago
I bet the blame here is with one of the insurance companies, rather than the JW Logistics. If the driver can get insured at the same cost as somebody without a reckless driving charge, then there is probably limited downside for the company to hire him.
- dmix 7y ago
  Is that the case with insuring delivery drivers or are you speculating?
- Shivetya 7y ago
  well depending on your state it may never be reported properly if at all. A recent horrific crash in New Hampshire[1] that killed seven motorcyclist was caused by a driver who never should be on road but records were either not shared with other states, taken in from other states, or even left the bin they got filed in [2] simply because they just sat unprocessed. [1] https://www.npr.org/2019/06/22/735027835/pickup-truck-in-new-hampshire-collides-with-marine-motorcycle-group-leaving-7-de https://www.npr.org/2019/06/22/735027835/pickup-truck-in-new... [2] https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/nearly-900-drivers-suspended-in-wake-of-deadly-motorcycle-crash-in-new-hampshire/ar-AADUrxi?ocid=spartandhp https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/nearly-900-drivers-suspend...
dsfyu404ed 7y ago
Because reckless driving is a weak signal. It covers a huge spectrum of behavior. It should really be called "driving on the aggressive end of reasonable in the presence of a cop" because that describes more of the behavior it's written for than "reckless". Where I'm from it's what you get when they actually have no good reason to pull you over but did it anyway on a hunch that you look like you have drugs or something or if you're dumb enough to talk back at the cop. Sure, a few people are actually "reckless" but there are fancier charges with bigger fines that they actually get and that's what the insurance flags people on.

SynthCann 7y ago

Sounds about right for anything AMZL related.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]