14 ms·

Just sharing the obligatory cancer scare articles. It's obvious to me that radiation of all kinds has an effect on us, whether that is non-ionizing or not. I th

by olah_1 7y ago

Just sharing the obligatory cancer scare articles. It's obvious to me that radiation of all kinds has an effect on us, whether that is non-ionizing or not. I think a lot more independent research needs to be done in this area, lest we look back on this time in a similar way to doctors endorsing cigarettes. "Bay Area city blocks 5G deployments over cancer concerns" https://techcrunch.com/2018/09/10/bay-area-city-blocks-5g-deployments-over-cancer-concerns/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/09/10/bay-area-city-blocks-5g-de... "Don’t keep cell phones next to your body, California Health Department warns" https://techcrunch.com/2017/12/15/dont-keep-cell-phones-next-to-your-body-california-health-department-warns/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/12/15/dont-keep-cell-phones-next...

rayiner 7y ago
If you want to know why America has such shitty infrastructure (especially cities like San Francisco where the density should warrant it), here is Exhibit A. Environmental studies, aesthetic objections,[1] fake health concerns, etc. In the 4.6 years Americans spend to prepare the average Environmental Impact Statement for an infrastructure project, Europeans can build city-wide subway systems or tunnel through mountains. Other countries are not going to hold up 5G deployment over fake health concerns. If we don't want 5G to be yet another area, like transit and roads, where the US lags woefully behind Europe and Japan, we must fight such distractions. [1] Remember when San Francisco held up AT&T fiber deployment in the city for years with a lawsuit about ugly fiber boxes? https://stopthecap.com/2011/06/29/san-francisco-still-in-stalemate-with-att-over-lawn-refrigerators-for-u-verse/ https://stopthecap.com/2011/06/29/san-francisco-still-in-sta...
- olah_1 7y ago
  The radiation and cancer concern is categorically different than "not in my backyard". If you can't see that these are totally unrelated, then I don't know what to say. Fiber lines are completely different than "hey these rats that are constantly exposed to 5G radiation that's 20 yards away are acting all messed up".
  - rayiner 7y ago
    Meritless aesthetic concerns and fake health concerns are in the same bucket. It's just ways to hold up progress. (And in this case, NIMBYs are seizing on fake health concerns to reinforce their case against deployment because they think the base stations are ugly.)
    - olah_1 7y ago
      >fake health concerns Can you explain why it is fake? Non-ionizing radiation does have an effect on us. Just because it isn't melting our organs doesn't mean that we aren't effected negatively by it. The independent research shows this, doesn't it?
      - rayiner 7y ago
        Numerous studies show no increase in cancer risk from cellular. In many respects, millimeter waves are even safer, because they can't penetrate through the skin as easily. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/16/science/5g-cellphones-wireless-cancer.html; https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/16/science/5g-cellphones-wir... https://www.realclearscience.com/articles/2019/04/30/is_5g_wireless_dangerous_no_but_science_may_never_end_the_debate.html https://www.realclearscience.com/articles/2019/04/30/is_5g_w...
      - HyperTalk2 7y ago
        Lawyers strive to become as good as possible at aggressively defending the objectively wrong opinion. He's either doing this as some sort of devil's advocate exercise or he's actually getting ready to defend 5G technology in court.
        rayiner 7y ago
        Alas, I'm just a nerd who likes radios and infrastructure, and is fed up with NIMBYs and feelers. EDIT: regarding "who stands to gain"--consumers! It's very odd to me that I'd have to defend the technology upgrade treadmill on HN of all places. In October, Apple's going to come out with the A13 chip. Is anyone going to wonder "who benefits?" Or ask "why do we need it?" No, we'll all understand that the A12 is obsolete trash now. That's how this industry works.
- Wowfunhappy 7y ago
  > If we don't want 5G to be yet another area, like transit and roads, where the US lags woefully behind Europe and Japan I don’t necessarily disagree with the crux of your point about infrastructure. However, in the case of 5G, why do we need to “beat” other countries? What’s the rush? Great article from The Verge titled “Wait, why the hell is the ‘race to 5G even a race?” https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/23/18637213/5g-race-us-leadership-china-fcc-lte https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/23/18637213/5g-race-us-leade...
  - olah_1 7y ago
    That's all I was saying. 5G is not like other infrastructure such as roads or tunnels or fiber lines. It's a "nice to have". So why can't we do more research and prove ME wrong? I would love to be proven wrong.
    - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
      Well, you can't prove that something isn't a health risk. I think the type of research that would satisfy you would take many decades. I'm much more concerned about how 5G will impact our ability to predict hurricanes. Lives are very much at stake there.
  - rayiner 7y ago
    For one thing, 5G is going to be necessary to fully realize things like augmented reality, self-driving cars, and other industries that will make significant economic contributions. Getting started earlier on those is better. For the other--it's embarrassing. I'm embarrassed that Copenhagen is building a massive new subway system extension for the same money it's costing my state (Maryland) to build a single suburban light rail line. It indicates moral shortcomings of the citizenry--inability to set priorities, inability to cooperate, selfishness, complacency, etc. Same thing with 5G, but add gullibility and hypochondria to the mix.
    - thr0w4w4yy 7y ago
      5G is the absolute last thing standing in the way of self-driving cars.

by olah_1 7y ago

rayiner 7y ago

If you want to know why America has such shitty infrastructure (especially cities like San Francisco where the density should warrant it), here is Exhibit A. Environmental studies, aesthetic objections,[1] fake health concerns, etc. In the 4.6 years Americans spend to prepare the average Environmental Impact Statement for an infrastructure project, Europeans can build city-wide subway systems or tunnel through mountains. Other countries are not going to hold up 5G deployment over fake health concerns. If we don't want 5G to be yet another area, like transit and roads, where the US lags woefully behind Europe and Japan, we must fight such distractions. [1] Remember when San Francisco held up AT&T fiber deployment in the city for years with a lawsuit about ugly fiber boxes? https://stopthecap.com/2011/06/29/san-francisco-still-in-stalemate-with-att-over-lawn-refrigerators-for-u-verse/ https://stopthecap.com/2011/06/29/san-francisco-still-in-sta...

olah_1 7y ago
The radiation and cancer concern is categorically different than "not in my backyard". If you can't see that these are totally unrelated, then I don't know what to say. Fiber lines are completely different than "hey these rats that are constantly exposed to 5G radiation that's 20 yards away are acting all messed up".
- rayiner 7y ago
  Meritless aesthetic concerns and fake health concerns are in the same bucket. It's just ways to hold up progress. (And in this case, NIMBYs are seizing on fake health concerns to reinforce their case against deployment because they think the base stations are ugly.)
  - olah_1 7y ago
    >fake health concerns Can you explain why it is fake? Non-ionizing radiation does have an effect on us. Just because it isn't melting our organs doesn't mean that we aren't effected negatively by it. The independent research shows this, doesn't it?
    - rayiner 7y ago
      Numerous studies show no increase in cancer risk from cellular. In many respects, millimeter waves are even safer, because they can't penetrate through the skin as easily. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/16/science/5g-cellphones-wireless-cancer.html; https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/16/science/5g-cellphones-wir... https://www.realclearscience.com/articles/2019/04/30/is_5g_wireless_dangerous_no_but_science_may_never_end_the_debate.html https://www.realclearscience.com/articles/2019/04/30/is_5g_w...
    - HyperTalk2 7y ago
      Lawyers strive to become as good as possible at aggressively defending the objectively wrong opinion. He's either doing this as some sort of devil's advocate exercise or he's actually getting ready to defend 5G technology in court.
      - rayiner 7y ago
        Alas, I'm just a nerd who likes radios and infrastructure, and is fed up with NIMBYs and feelers. EDIT: regarding "who stands to gain"--consumers! It's very odd to me that I'd have to defend the technology upgrade treadmill on HN of all places. In October, Apple's going to come out with the A13 chip. Is anyone going to wonder "who benefits?" Or ask "why do we need it?" No, we'll all understand that the A12 is obsolete trash now. That's how this industry works.
Wowfunhappy 7y ago
> If we don't want 5G to be yet another area, like transit and roads, where the US lags woefully behind Europe and Japan I don’t necessarily disagree with the crux of your point about infrastructure. However, in the case of 5G, why do we need to “beat” other countries? What’s the rush? Great article from The Verge titled “Wait, why the hell is the ‘race to 5G even a race?” https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/23/18637213/5g-race-us-leadership-china-fcc-lte https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/23/18637213/5g-race-us-leade...
- olah_1 7y ago
  That's all I was saying. 5G is not like other infrastructure such as roads or tunnels or fiber lines. It's a "nice to have". So why can't we do more research and prove ME wrong? I would love to be proven wrong.
  - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
    Well, you can't prove that something isn't a health risk. I think the type of research that would satisfy you would take many decades. I'm much more concerned about how 5G will impact our ability to predict hurricanes. Lives are very much at stake there.
- rayiner 7y ago
  For one thing, 5G is going to be necessary to fully realize things like augmented reality, self-driving cars, and other industries that will make significant economic contributions. Getting started earlier on those is better. For the other--it's embarrassing. I'm embarrassed that Copenhagen is building a massive new subway system extension for the same money it's costing my state (Maryland) to build a single suburban light rail line. It indicates moral shortcomings of the citizenry--inability to set priorities, inability to cooperate, selfishness, complacency, etc. Same thing with 5G, but add gullibility and hypochondria to the mix.
  - thr0w4w4yy 7y ago
    5G is the absolute last thing standing in the way of self-driving cars.