6 ms·

Go to China? You don't have to imagine. Well the UK isn't much better now.

by davesmith1983 7y ago

greglindahl 7y ago
The UK has put millions of its citizens in prison because of their religion?
- davesmith1983 7y ago
  The article is about surveillance, the STASI were known for their insane levels of surveillance. The last time I checked there was a huge number of security cameras in the UK, maybe more than any other country. Also the UK has put people in prison for the nebulous crime of "hate speech". There are seven hate speech convictions per day, though I suspect most of these are fines and a criminal record. So the UK is going down the same road as China.
  - DanBC 7y ago
    > Also the UK has put people in prison for the nebulous crime of "hate speech". Almost all these examples usually given involve campaigns of harassment. And there's nothing nebulous about it: the boundaries are clear and simple.
    - davesmith1983 7y ago
      No not at all. The Chelsea Russell case 17 year old girl on facebook posted rap lyrics, we also have the 'Count Dankula' case which the Scottish court decided it was "Nazi Recruitment" ignoring the context where he clearly said "I am using this to annoy my girlfriend" at the start of the video. I believe there is also a case where some Grime rappers were charged with hate speech for their songs ... this would be the equivalent of locking NWA up for the Straight Outta Compton album. So no it isn't clear at all.
      - DanBC 7y ago
        Chelsea Russell: not convicted. Count Dankula: broadcast the phrase "gas the jews", then did not use a freedom of speech argument in court, instead saying "it was just a joke". His "I am using this to annoy my girlfriend" defence failed because there's no evidence she even saw the video, and if he was just doing it to annoy her there was no need to broadcast it to his youtube channel. > I believe there is also a case where some Grime rappers were charged with hate speech for their songs It's pretty hard to have this conversation with someone who admits they don't know what they're talking about.
        davesmith1983 7y ago
        > Chelsea Russell: not convicted. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-43816921 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-43816921 Yes she was. It was only overturned later because she has (I believe) autism. The whole point I was making is that it should not happen in the first place. Do you think we should be dragging autistic teenage girls through court because of rap lyric posted on facebook? I think it is ridiculous. > Count Dankula: broadcast the phrase "gas the jews", then did not use a freedom of speech argument in court, instead saying "it was just a joke". His "I am using this to annoy my girlfriend" defence failed because there's no evidence she even saw the video, and if he was just doing it to annoy her there was no need to broadcast it to his youtube channel. The video was obviously a joke and if you just repeat the phrases said on their own without context they don't sound funny. The whole joke is that he is getting his dog which has no idea what those phrases mean to react to them. It is a really old gag that you do something stupid in front of an animal because they are the ultimate dead-pan actor. As to why his girlfriend didn't see it, it went viral (via reddit) before he had the chance to show her. The reason why it was on Youtube is because they have a night where they just watch Youtube video together and he wanted it to be like a surprise prank. At the time (I know because I followed the case since he got arrested) he had 8 subscribers on his account. His story has been consistent from day one before he lawyered up. Again he should have never been arrested over what was clearly intended as a joke. MPs in the House of Commons admitted that the law should be under review because of his case. The way you tell the situation doesn't give full picture. Almost every-time someone just cherry picks phrases from the video like you did I know they are being disingenuous. > It's pretty hard to have this conversation with someone who admits they don't know what they're talking about. The point is that you shouldn't have any legal proceeding against you because of a song. London Grime much like heavy metal (70s) and gangsta rap (80s and 90s) before them is being demonised by the moral puritans. I suspect they will take another run at violent video games once Doom Eternal comes out or GTA6. This again is disingenuous of you. This makes it pretty obvious you aren't speaking in good faith. Bye.
  - fjkjk58dfkj 7y ago
    Totally agree and when a crime cant be proved successfully in court, you'll get locked up under the mental health act. In my case I was labelled as delusional despite having witnesses to some of the events which the medical professional would not entertain. The spooks are very good at this and Edward Snowdon has confirmed some of the things myself and customers have seen, which happens to be called the Martha Mitchell Effect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martha_Mitchell_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martha_Mitchell_effect Unfortunately criminals have been running the world for thousands of years, inventing different religions and belief systems, assimilating them where necessary as in the case of the Christianity and Paganism. Other criminals have invented the concept of Royalty despite the fact we know from science that a Royal person is just as human as the person sleeping on the street. Its easy to sell various concepts as wanting to maintain the order, but all these entities operate in secret and you can never trust anyone operating in secret. Sure various reasons can be given to explain away why some things need to be kept secret, but keeping something secret keeps people dumb. Its probably best to view everything in life as being used for good and bad, ying and yan, light and dark etc etc, plus if any of you ever had to sit a Brick test which is a measure of creativity, you will know so many things can be used for different applications. Take Wifi, who knew this existed? https://news.mit.edu/2013/new-system-uses-low-power-wi-fi-signal-to-track-moving-humans-0628 https://news.mit.edu/2013/new-system-uses-low-power-wi-fi-si... Another way wifi can be used is by taking a laptop, seeing what wifi signals it picks up and then getting various wifi enabled devices to report tiny signal strength anomalies to work out who is walking in front of one signal, absorbing some of it, like someone walking in front of a light transmitting morse code. Most people will also be familiar with military contracts and secrecy that the likes of Lockheed Martin, Boeing and others will have with the US Govt, you don't get to find out the secret contracts the tech companies have with the military, except perhaps the Intel Management Engine switch. These tech company's wont be in a position to comment on said contracts and so you just wont get to find out what the true capabilities are, although to maintain a charade of a being in a "free" country, you do get to find out about the court orders that obtain data from the tech company's cloud services and other device metrics which can be used as public knowledge. Bottom line is, don't trust no one, because just like you cant predict when you will next lose your temper, you cant predict when someone you trust will do something to warrant losing that trust, so its safer to not trust anyone.
- inflatableDodo 7y ago
  Well, large parts of Northern Ireland became a sort of open air prison for many Catholics for quite a while, with UK army patrols there treating anyone Catholic as essentially automatically guilty of something. In those territories during that time, the UK army joined up with unionist para-militaries and became essentially a domestic terror force targeting a subsection of UK citizens, selected by the ethnicity indicated by their religion. Shooting unarmed citizens and torturing people became standard practice for sections of our miltary. Look up the Ballymurphy inquiry. It is worth keeping in mind that it is also only very recently indeed, that it became legal in the UK for the head of state to be married to someone Catholic and it is still illegal for the head of state to actually be Catholic. Just to be clear, I am not Protestant, Catholic, or Irish. I have no particular dog in this fight. It is just a section of fairly recent history that illustrates rather clearly that the UK is not above using the machinery of the state to target its own citizens based on their religion.

Go to China? You don't have to imagine. Well the UK isn't much better now.

greglindahl 7y ago

The UK has put millions of its citizens in prison because of their religion?

davesmith1983 7y ago
The article is about surveillance, the STASI were known for their insane levels of surveillance. The last time I checked there was a huge number of security cameras in the UK, maybe more than any other country. Also the UK has put people in prison for the nebulous crime of "hate speech". There are seven hate speech convictions per day, though I suspect most of these are fines and a criminal record. So the UK is going down the same road as China.
- DanBC 7y ago
  > Also the UK has put people in prison for the nebulous crime of "hate speech". Almost all these examples usually given involve campaigns of harassment. And there's nothing nebulous about it: the boundaries are clear and simple.
  - davesmith1983 7y ago
    No not at all. The Chelsea Russell case 17 year old girl on facebook posted rap lyrics, we also have the 'Count Dankula' case which the Scottish court decided it was "Nazi Recruitment" ignoring the context where he clearly said "I am using this to annoy my girlfriend" at the start of the video. I believe there is also a case where some Grime rappers were charged with hate speech for their songs ... this would be the equivalent of locking NWA up for the Straight Outta Compton album. So no it isn't clear at all.
    - DanBC 7y ago
      Chelsea Russell: not convicted. Count Dankula: broadcast the phrase "gas the jews", then did not use a freedom of speech argument in court, instead saying "it was just a joke". His "I am using this to annoy my girlfriend" defence failed because there's no evidence she even saw the video, and if he was just doing it to annoy her there was no need to broadcast it to his youtube channel. > I believe there is also a case where some Grime rappers were charged with hate speech for their songs It's pretty hard to have this conversation with someone who admits they don't know what they're talking about.
      - davesmith1983 7y ago
        > Chelsea Russell: not convicted. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-43816921 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-43816921 Yes she was. It was only overturned later because she has (I believe) autism. The whole point I was making is that it should not happen in the first place. Do you think we should be dragging autistic teenage girls through court because of rap lyric posted on facebook? I think it is ridiculous. > Count Dankula: broadcast the phrase "gas the jews", then did not use a freedom of speech argument in court, instead saying "it was just a joke". His "I am using this to annoy my girlfriend" defence failed because there's no evidence she even saw the video, and if he was just doing it to annoy her there was no need to broadcast it to his youtube channel. The video was obviously a joke and if you just repeat the phrases said on their own without context they don't sound funny. The whole joke is that he is getting his dog which has no idea what those phrases mean to react to them. It is a really old gag that you do something stupid in front of an animal because they are the ultimate dead-pan actor. As to why his girlfriend didn't see it, it went viral (via reddit) before he had the chance to show her. The reason why it was on Youtube is because they have a night where they just watch Youtube video together and he wanted it to be like a surprise prank. At the time (I know because I followed the case since he got arrested) he had 8 subscribers on his account. His story has been consistent from day one before he lawyered up. Again he should have never been arrested over what was clearly intended as a joke. MPs in the House of Commons admitted that the law should be under review because of his case. The way you tell the situation doesn't give full picture. Almost every-time someone just cherry picks phrases from the video like you did I know they are being disingenuous. > It's pretty hard to have this conversation with someone who admits they don't know what they're talking about. The point is that you shouldn't have any legal proceeding against you because of a song. London Grime much like heavy metal (70s) and gangsta rap (80s and 90s) before them is being demonised by the moral puritans. I suspect they will take another run at violent video games once Doom Eternal comes out or GTA6. This again is disingenuous of you. This makes it pretty obvious you aren't speaking in good faith. Bye.
- fjkjk58dfkj 7y ago
  Totally agree and when a crime cant be proved successfully in court, you'll get locked up under the mental health act. In my case I was labelled as delusional despite having witnesses to some of the events which the medical professional would not entertain. The spooks are very good at this and Edward Snowdon has confirmed some of the things myself and customers have seen, which happens to be called the Martha Mitchell Effect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martha_Mitchell_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martha_Mitchell_effect Unfortunately criminals have been running the world for thousands of years, inventing different religions and belief systems, assimilating them where necessary as in the case of the Christianity and Paganism. Other criminals have invented the concept of Royalty despite the fact we know from science that a Royal person is just as human as the person sleeping on the street. Its easy to sell various concepts as wanting to maintain the order, but all these entities operate in secret and you can never trust anyone operating in secret. Sure various reasons can be given to explain away why some things need to be kept secret, but keeping something secret keeps people dumb. Its probably best to view everything in life as being used for good and bad, ying and yan, light and dark etc etc, plus if any of you ever had to sit a Brick test which is a measure of creativity, you will know so many things can be used for different applications. Take Wifi, who knew this existed? https://news.mit.edu/2013/new-system-uses-low-power-wi-fi-signal-to-track-moving-humans-0628 https://news.mit.edu/2013/new-system-uses-low-power-wi-fi-si... Another way wifi can be used is by taking a laptop, seeing what wifi signals it picks up and then getting various wifi enabled devices to report tiny signal strength anomalies to work out who is walking in front of one signal, absorbing some of it, like someone walking in front of a light transmitting morse code. Most people will also be familiar with military contracts and secrecy that the likes of Lockheed Martin, Boeing and others will have with the US Govt, you don't get to find out the secret contracts the tech companies have with the military, except perhaps the Intel Management Engine switch. These tech company's wont be in a position to comment on said contracts and so you just wont get to find out what the true capabilities are, although to maintain a charade of a being in a "free" country, you do get to find out about the court orders that obtain data from the tech company's cloud services and other device metrics which can be used as public knowledge. Bottom line is, don't trust no one, because just like you cant predict when you will next lose your temper, you cant predict when someone you trust will do something to warrant losing that trust, so its safer to not trust anyone.
inflatableDodo 7y ago
Well, large parts of Northern Ireland became a sort of open air prison for many Catholics for quite a while, with UK army patrols there treating anyone Catholic as essentially automatically guilty of something. In those territories during that time, the UK army joined up with unionist para-militaries and became essentially a domestic terror force targeting a subsection of UK citizens, selected by the ethnicity indicated by their religion. Shooting unarmed citizens and torturing people became standard practice for sections of our miltary. Look up the Ballymurphy inquiry. It is worth keeping in mind that it is also only very recently indeed, that it became legal in the UK for the head of state to be married to someone Catholic and it is still illegal for the head of state to actually be Catholic. Just to be clear, I am not Protestant, Catholic, or Irish. I have no particular dog in this fight. It is just a section of fairly recent history that illustrates rather clearly that the UK is not above using the machinery of the state to target its own citizens based on their religion.