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One of the firms referenced in the Bloomberg article actually offers the plants (and opportunities of investment in them) and has a number of answers to the que

by jaclaz 7y ago

One of the firms referenced in the Bloomberg article actually offers the plants (and opportunities of investment in them) and has a number of answers to the questions asked in the thread: https://worldtree.info/empress-tree/ https://worldtree.info/empress-tree/ Though I have personally never heard about anything actually manufactured with the actual "empress" or "princess" timber. It seems like in Japan it has a number of tradititonal uses, the family is that of the Paulownia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paulownia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paulownia

coderintherye 7y ago
World Tree is solid. I've talked with the owner and she has a good program set up with the farmers who grow the trees to get the capital they need to plant them and then revenue share from the sales. They raised money (about $1 million) on WeFunder earlier this year to help grow the program.
- jaclaz 7y ago
  Good, so you can maybe know (and tell us) what is manufactured from the actual timber (i.e. to whom it is sold and for what use).
  - coderintherye 7y ago
    You can see here who they plan to market the lumber to: https://worldtree.info/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/World-Tree-OM-June-1-2018.pdf https://worldtree.info/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/World-Tree... Note that they are not harvesting until 2022 according to the plan, so it remains to be seen if they can effectively execute on their sales strategy.
    - jaclaz 7y ago
      Thank you, rather lenghty, but really interesting. Even if it is - understandably in a prospect for investors - a tad bit (IMHO) scaring, this is the central issue: >No Market for ES Lumber in North America >A return on a Subscriber’s investment in the Company is dependent on the aggregate of board feet of ES Lumber that the Company is able to harvest from its ES Tree crops and the price per board foot for which it can sell its ES Lumber, both of which are subject to numerous external factors beyond the control of the Company and the Company. >The market for ES Lumber in North America is unestablished. >If the Company is unable to develop the market or if the market does not expand on its own or if the Company is unable to sell to the Asian market, the Company may not be able to sell its ES Lumber for a profit or at all, which may result in a loss of some or all of a Subscriber’s investment in the Company. In a nutshell the issue is that there is not (yet) a market for the wood, and in order to create the market one needs to have substantial quantities of the material to offer. The provided "Fender" example is typical (egg and chicken): >WTT contracted with Fender Guitars in 2010 to supply ES Lumber for the building of Telecaster and Stratocaster Guitars. Fender was pleased with the results of their prototypes and requested thousands of board feet to build more guitars and speaker boxes. Due to limited availability of ES Lumber, WTT was unable to fulfil the demand at the time. However, the Company has recently located a source of 3 million board feet of ES Lumber and is currently negotiating the sale of the lumber to Fender and other buyers.
sureshv 7y ago
The Janka Hardness is 260-290 which is softer than most soft woods. Seems like that could limit its usage.
- benj111 7y ago
  But its harder than Balsa which is a hardwood...
jfengel 7y ago
And they're going to have to think of something to do with that wood, if it's going to be part of a carbon reduction methodology. The trees don't live forever, and if they are left to rot or burn, they release all that CO2 back into the environment. Lumber would be one use. So would charcoal, or paper. Or possibly even burying them. But either way, growing them is only half the battle.
- CyanBird 7y ago
  In Chile big forestry companies (?) which dedicate themselves to grow and then sell timber are growing eucalyptus trees for their business, but said eucalyptus trees have great externalities, in that they use colossal amounts of water , given that said trees come from a dry climate, they simply evolved to capture as much water as possible. I wonder if there's a business here, replacing eucalyptus trees for empress, which might very well grow faster and without as many externalities, such as the water cost, or the bark eucalyptus trees shed which is a fire hazard

by jaclaz 7y ago

coderintherye 7y ago

World Tree is solid. I've talked with the owner and she has a good program set up with the farmers who grow the trees to get the capital they need to plant them and then revenue share from the sales. They raised money (about $1 million) on WeFunder earlier this year to help grow the program.

jaclaz 7y ago
Good, so you can maybe know (and tell us) what is manufactured from the actual timber (i.e. to whom it is sold and for what use).
- coderintherye 7y ago
  You can see here who they plan to market the lumber to: https://worldtree.info/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/World-Tree-OM-June-1-2018.pdf https://worldtree.info/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/World-Tree... Note that they are not harvesting until 2022 according to the plan, so it remains to be seen if they can effectively execute on their sales strategy.
  - jaclaz 7y ago
    Thank you, rather lenghty, but really interesting. Even if it is - understandably in a prospect for investors - a tad bit (IMHO) scaring, this is the central issue: >No Market for ES Lumber in North America >A return on a Subscriber’s investment in the Company is dependent on the aggregate of board feet of ES Lumber that the Company is able to harvest from its ES Tree crops and the price per board foot for which it can sell its ES Lumber, both of which are subject to numerous external factors beyond the control of the Company and the Company. >The market for ES Lumber in North America is unestablished. >If the Company is unable to develop the market or if the market does not expand on its own or if the Company is unable to sell to the Asian market, the Company may not be able to sell its ES Lumber for a profit or at all, which may result in a loss of some or all of a Subscriber’s investment in the Company. In a nutshell the issue is that there is not (yet) a market for the wood, and in order to create the market one needs to have substantial quantities of the material to offer. The provided "Fender" example is typical (egg and chicken): >WTT contracted with Fender Guitars in 2010 to supply ES Lumber for the building of Telecaster and Stratocaster Guitars. Fender was pleased with the results of their prototypes and requested thousands of board feet to build more guitars and speaker boxes. Due to limited availability of ES Lumber, WTT was unable to fulfil the demand at the time. However, the Company has recently located a source of 3 million board feet of ES Lumber and is currently negotiating the sale of the lumber to Fender and other buyers.

sureshv 7y ago

The Janka Hardness is 260-290 which is softer than most soft woods. Seems like that could limit its usage.

benj111 7y ago
But its harder than Balsa which is a hardwood...

jfengel 7y ago

And they're going to have to think of something to do with that wood, if it's going to be part of a carbon reduction methodology. The trees don't live forever, and if they are left to rot or burn, they release all that CO2 back into the environment. Lumber would be one use. So would charcoal, or paper. Or possibly even burying them. But either way, growing them is only half the battle.

CyanBird 7y ago
In Chile big forestry companies (?) which dedicate themselves to grow and then sell timber are growing eucalyptus trees for their business, but said eucalyptus trees have great externalities, in that they use colossal amounts of water , given that said trees come from a dry climate, they simply evolved to capture as much water as possible. I wonder if there's a business here, replacing eucalyptus trees for empress, which might very well grow faster and without as many externalities, such as the water cost, or the bark eucalyptus trees shed which is a fire hazard