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Is HN exactly like Boomer Facebook now? What's with this "kick them out of the country" rhetoric? If people are assaulting peaceful protesters, arrest them, ch

by lxe 7y ago

Is HN exactly like Boomer Facebook now? What's with this "kick them out of the country" rhetoric? If people are assaulting peaceful protesters, arrest them, charge them, try them, and punish them according to the law. It's literally right there on camera. But no, please continue inciting outrage and controversy. China bad. Hong Kong good.

JumpCrisscross 7y ago
> punish them according to the law It’s lawful and valid to revoke visas of those convicted of violent crimes. Assaulting protesters is a violent crime. Nobody reasonable is advocating for deporting all Chinese students. Just those who assault protesters.
- lxe 7y ago
  Well, if an internet commenter says so, I guess we can skip the whole due process thing.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - JaimeThompson 7y ago
    One can assume that in Australia that if one has been convicted that due process has happened can't you?
  - globuous 7y ago
    Come on, you guys are talking about the same thing. Parent was probably (obviously?) saying that trying them will probably (or should?) result in their visa being revoked.
sillyquiet 7y ago
In most rational countries, folks who are visiting on various forms of visas ARE deported when they commit crimes. Making this out to be some kind of lynch mob thing is kind of disingenuous
panzagl 7y ago
When I see a response like 'kick them out of the country' I view it as emotional shorthand for 'arrest them under due process, try them with appropriate counsel provided, then deport them as proscribed by law'. One is just shorter to type. It's people letting off steam, not suggesting dismantling the judicial system.
tepidandroid 7y ago
It's outrage-porn peddled as world news by the BCC, plain and simple. The tell-tale sign is that they didn’t bother to get both sides of the story. There are videos of the incident readily available on Youtube [1] which show what exactly happened. There’s one group of HK/Australian pro-Hong Kong protestors on one side. There’s another group of Mainland students exercising their right to free speech by playing and singing the Chinese national anthem on the other. Was this extremely annoying to the pro-HK protestors? Definitely. Was it offensive to the Australians? Yes. Were the pro-China crowd offended by the signs saying “free Hong Kong”? Yup. You can see the ensuing minor scuffle ("violent clashes" according to the BBC) between between a tiny handful of students from both sides. I saw exactly one sign being torn down. The vast majority of the students were just standing there peacefully. The BBC article makes it seem as though the Chinese students strong-armed their way into the crowd and started beating people, which is objectively not the case. This is the narrative of the two pro-HK students who they interviewed. If there is evidence of threats and intimidation, then that evidence should be brought forth and those students should be formally reprimanded at the very least, or expelled/criminally charged/deported at worst if the complaints are proven to be valid. It’s easy to see why they’d write a story like this though when you see the emotional response elicited even from people here -one can only imagine the effect it'd have on the less educated masses. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CkH3zqoGWw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CkH3zqoGWw edit: Another longer video of the "violent clashes" or "Lennon wall violence in University of Queensland" as described by the Youtube uploader (warning: extremely long and boring video where nothing happens) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiRmRPsJ-sM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiRmRPsJ-sM
- LiquidSky 7y ago
  >The tell-tale sign is that they didn’t bother to get both sides of the story. Why? Not every story has two sides. Here one group used violence on another that didn't. Unless you have evidence that the pro-HK protesters actually used violence first, that's the only side to the story. The mainland faction being riled up doesn't excuse violence. Just because it's not a massive riot where the streets run red with blood doesn't mean it's not a worrying instance. >The BBC article makes it seem as though the Chinese students strong-armed their way into the crowd and started beating people, which is objectively not the case. On the contrary, it objectively is the case, as the first video you yourself linked to shows: it opens with a pro-mainland student in black rushing into the pro-HK crowd and assaulting someone with a crowd screaming and advancing behind him. It's very strange that you're working so hard to downplay what happened. Not just downplaying, willfully distorting what the videos show.
president 7y ago
I think it's a fair question to ask whether or not people should be allowed to stay in the U.S. after demonstrating toxic behavior. In case you didn't read the article, these students are using violence and doxxing personal information of protestors: > One of their friends was also "doxxed" - personal information including his passport, marriage certificate and student ID details were posted online. "Don't worry, there won't be a peaceful life for him in Brisbane," read an accompanying caption on Chinese social media platform Weibo. Is this the kind of behavior that you would allow from a visitor to your home? EDIT: Some shady down-voting going on in this thread. Not sure what else I expected with a politically-volatile topic like this one but it just goes to show that people don't care about discourse - they just care about feeling right.
LiquidSky 7y ago
>Is HN exactly like Boomer Facebook now? What's with this "kick them out of the country" rhetoric? This is complete false equivalence. No one in this thread is calling for all Chinese to be expelled from Australia or nonsense like that. >If people are assaulting peaceful protesters, arrest them, charge them, try them, and punish them according to the law. It's literally right there on camera. This is exactly what people are calling for. If you are convicted of a serious crime you can be expelled from the country. Some people feel they should be. Perhaps you disagree, but you're saying the exact same thing.

by lxe 7y ago

JumpCrisscross 7y ago

> punish them according to the law It’s lawful and valid to revoke visas of those convicted of violent crimes. Assaulting protesters is a violent crime. Nobody reasonable is advocating for deporting all Chinese students. Just those who assault protesters.

lxe 7y ago
Well, if an internet commenter says so, I guess we can skip the whole due process thing.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- JaimeThompson 7y ago
  One can assume that in Australia that if one has been convicted that due process has happened can't you?
- globuous 7y ago
  Come on, you guys are talking about the same thing. Parent was probably (obviously?) saying that trying them will probably (or should?) result in their visa being revoked.

sillyquiet 7y ago

In most rational countries, folks who are visiting on various forms of visas ARE deported when they commit crimes. Making this out to be some kind of lynch mob thing is kind of disingenuous

panzagl 7y ago

When I see a response like 'kick them out of the country' I view it as emotional shorthand for 'arrest them under due process, try them with appropriate counsel provided, then deport them as proscribed by law'. One is just shorter to type. It's people letting off steam, not suggesting dismantling the judicial system.

tepidandroid 7y ago

It's outrage-porn peddled as world news by the BCC, plain and simple. The tell-tale sign is that they didn’t bother to get both sides of the story. There are videos of the incident readily available on Youtube [1] which show what exactly happened. There’s one group of HK/Australian pro-Hong Kong protestors on one side. There’s another group of Mainland students exercising their right to free speech by playing and singing the Chinese national anthem on the other. Was this extremely annoying to the pro-HK protestors? Definitely. Was it offensive to the Australians? Yes. Were the pro-China crowd offended by the signs saying “free Hong Kong”? Yup. You can see the ensuing minor scuffle ("violent clashes" according to the BBC) between between a tiny handful of students from both sides. I saw exactly one sign being torn down. The vast majority of the students were just standing there peacefully. The BBC article makes it seem as though the Chinese students strong-armed their way into the crowd and started beating people, which is objectively not the case. This is the narrative of the two pro-HK students who they interviewed. If there is evidence of threats and intimidation, then that evidence should be brought forth and those students should be formally reprimanded at the very least, or expelled/criminally charged/deported at worst if the complaints are proven to be valid. It’s easy to see why they’d write a story like this though when you see the emotional response elicited even from people here -one can only imagine the effect it'd have on the less educated masses. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CkH3zqoGWw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CkH3zqoGWw edit: Another longer video of the "violent clashes" or "Lennon wall violence in University of Queensland" as described by the Youtube uploader (warning: extremely long and boring video where nothing happens) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiRmRPsJ-sM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiRmRPsJ-sM

LiquidSky 7y ago
>The tell-tale sign is that they didn’t bother to get both sides of the story. Why? Not every story has two sides. Here one group used violence on another that didn't. Unless you have evidence that the pro-HK protesters actually used violence first, that's the only side to the story. The mainland faction being riled up doesn't excuse violence. Just because it's not a massive riot where the streets run red with blood doesn't mean it's not a worrying instance. >The BBC article makes it seem as though the Chinese students strong-armed their way into the crowd and started beating people, which is objectively not the case. On the contrary, it objectively is the case, as the first video you yourself linked to shows: it opens with a pro-mainland student in black rushing into the pro-HK crowd and assaulting someone with a crowd screaming and advancing behind him. It's very strange that you're working so hard to downplay what happened. Not just downplaying, willfully distorting what the videos show.

president 7y ago

I think it's a fair question to ask whether or not people should be allowed to stay in the U.S. after demonstrating toxic behavior. In case you didn't read the article, these students are using violence and doxxing personal information of protestors: > One of their friends was also "doxxed" - personal information including his passport, marriage certificate and student ID details were posted online. "Don't worry, there won't be a peaceful life for him in Brisbane," read an accompanying caption on Chinese social media platform Weibo. Is this the kind of behavior that you would allow from a visitor to your home? EDIT: Some shady down-voting going on in this thread. Not sure what else I expected with a politically-volatile topic like this one but it just goes to show that people don't care about discourse - they just care about feeling right.

LiquidSky 7y ago

>Is HN exactly like Boomer Facebook now? What's with this "kick them out of the country" rhetoric? This is complete false equivalence. No one in this thread is calling for all Chinese to be expelled from Australia or nonsense like that. >If people are assaulting peaceful protesters, arrest them, charge them, try them, and punish them according to the law. It's literally right there on camera. This is exactly what people are calling for. If you are convicted of a serious crime you can be expelled from the country. Some people feel they should be. Perhaps you disagree, but you're saying the exact same thing.