7 ms·

There’s a trap in software dev careers. If you fall into it, you can really get stuck post 40. If you work at a small-ish dev organization - especially in-hous

There’s a trap in software dev careers. If you fall into it, you can really get stuck post 40. If you work at a small-ish dev organization - especially in-house dev in a non-tech company - you can rise pretty far and become pretty senior, and your indispensability can net you a decent income. But on the open job market those skills don’t transfer as well. The senior roles in small dev shops are filled by promoting from within (because they value in house knowledge), and the senior roles in BIG dev shops are filled by hiring people who know how to operate in a big company, and you don’t have those skills. Best way to avoid the trap is, try to work somewhere big for a bit before you get to 40, to keep that door open and make it possible to be hired into a senior role.

poteznykrolik 7y ago
^ This became apparent as I looked at older "role model" employees in big orgs when i was still very junior when I'd wash up there after startups crap out
pmiller2 7y ago
> ...senior roles in BIG dev shops are filled by hiring people who know how to operate in a big company, and you don’t have those skills. I'm not convinced of that. I was recently hired as a senior engineer at a large tech company that has more engineers than the sum total number of employees at every other company I worked at previously. My skills transferred just fine.
- gcatalfamo 7y ago
  I'm sure of that, but the problem is not when on the job, but while interviewing.
  - nicoburns 7y ago
    I reckon it's possible to acquire most of those skills at small companies. It just really depends on the small company. It's also easy to get stuck in a deadend of specialised practices at a small company if you're not careful, and those people will struggle to get jobs later.
  - pmiller2 7y ago
    Not sure what you mean.
    - odonnellryan 7y ago
      To add to your comments, there are remarkable opportunities for developers of all walks of life in the market. It takes some luck to find an open door, but people are willing to pay for excellent talent if they can find it.
    - Sammi 7y ago
      Recruiters and interviewers focus too much on "technology of the day" that will always change and be out of date, and not enough on foundational knowledge that is always transferable to new tech. So if you don't have they right modern tech stack on your resume then you have no chance of getting hired even if you are perfectly capable of doing the work. This is where "resume driven development" comes from. Smart and rational developers will choose tech stacks that look good on their resume, not necessarily what is best for the work at hand, because they want to make sure that they stay hireable in the future. It no good to do the best work you can do today, if you cannot get hired in the future. This is partly how new tech stacks are always so hyped even if they are always just more or less rehashes of what already exists.
      - pmiller2 7y ago
        That is not specific to big companies vs small companies, which is what I was asking about upthread.
        Sammi 7y ago
        If you're saying that it doesn't matter if you're at a small or large company using an internal company specific tech stack, then I agree. Both will leave you as unhireable even if your actual development skills can transfer just fine.
      - bpicolo 7y ago
        Big companies seem to typically be on the opposite side, and not care about tech of the day.
arthurjj 7y ago
+1 This is really solid advice and what I inadvertently did. I'm in my 30s and spent a couple years at a no-name shop out of college. I was getting 0 recruiters calling me. Once I realized it was a dead end I switched over to working at a Unicorn for a few years and have since switched again to big tech. Now recruiters are interested in me for senior dev roles.
notJim 7y ago
Probably the best thing is to change around every couple of years. IMO, small/medium-but-growing companies offer the best opportunities to work on your technical skills, while larger companies offer the chance to grow your ability to navigate complex organizations.
scarface74 7y ago
The curse of the expert beginner: https://daedtech.com/how-developers-stop-learning-rise-of-the-expert-beginner/ https://daedtech.com/how-developers-stop-learning-rise-of-th... And the Dead Sea Affect: http://brucefwebster.com/2008/04/11/the-wetware-crisis-the-dead-sea-effect/ http://brucefwebster.com/2008/04/11/the-wetware-crisis-the-d...
justanother 7y ago
Yet another +1 on this: I worked at the same tiny shop (a partnership-like handful of people) for about 15 years; We navigated a few technological transitions throughout those years and made more money than we probably should have, but when I (at age 40+) found myself at a larger shop, learning the latest tech stacks was definitely not the biggest challenge. Indeed, the challenge was slowing down a bit, submitting thoughtful PRs, coordinating with designers, writing documentation... you know, actual engineering process. I got my hands smacked mightily a few times at first, and I got PRs rejected, but I got the hang of it. And yes, my long-dormant telephone magically started ringing again as the technologies, people, and companies on my Linked profile started catching recruiters' eyes again like they did back in the day. It can happen to anyone, but I can see how it'd be particular common among people over 40. After all, I spent my entire 30s with the attitude of "this is working and making plenty of cash, why change it?"

poteznykrolik 7y ago

^ This became apparent as I looked at older "role model" employees in big orgs when i was still very junior when I'd wash up there after startups crap out

pmiller2 7y ago

> ...senior roles in BIG dev shops are filled by hiring people who know how to operate in a big company, and you don’t have those skills. I'm not convinced of that. I was recently hired as a senior engineer at a large tech company that has more engineers than the sum total number of employees at every other company I worked at previously. My skills transferred just fine.

gcatalfamo 7y ago
I'm sure of that, but the problem is not when on the job, but while interviewing.
- nicoburns 7y ago
  I reckon it's possible to acquire most of those skills at small companies. It just really depends on the small company. It's also easy to get stuck in a deadend of specialised practices at a small company if you're not careful, and those people will struggle to get jobs later.
- pmiller2 7y ago
  Not sure what you mean.
  - odonnellryan 7y ago
    To add to your comments, there are remarkable opportunities for developers of all walks of life in the market. It takes some luck to find an open door, but people are willing to pay for excellent talent if they can find it.
  - Sammi 7y ago
    Recruiters and interviewers focus too much on "technology of the day" that will always change and be out of date, and not enough on foundational knowledge that is always transferable to new tech. So if you don't have they right modern tech stack on your resume then you have no chance of getting hired even if you are perfectly capable of doing the work. This is where "resume driven development" comes from. Smart and rational developers will choose tech stacks that look good on their resume, not necessarily what is best for the work at hand, because they want to make sure that they stay hireable in the future. It no good to do the best work you can do today, if you cannot get hired in the future. This is partly how new tech stacks are always so hyped even if they are always just more or less rehashes of what already exists.
    - pmiller2 7y ago
      That is not specific to big companies vs small companies, which is what I was asking about upthread.
      - Sammi 7y ago
        If you're saying that it doesn't matter if you're at a small or large company using an internal company specific tech stack, then I agree. Both will leave you as unhireable even if your actual development skills can transfer just fine.
    - bpicolo 7y ago
      Big companies seem to typically be on the opposite side, and not care about tech of the day.

arthurjj 7y ago

+1 This is really solid advice and what I inadvertently did. I'm in my 30s and spent a couple years at a no-name shop out of college. I was getting 0 recruiters calling me. Once I realized it was a dead end I switched over to working at a Unicorn for a few years and have since switched again to big tech. Now recruiters are interested in me for senior dev roles.

notJim 7y ago

Probably the best thing is to change around every couple of years. IMO, small/medium-but-growing companies offer the best opportunities to work on your technical skills, while larger companies offer the chance to grow your ability to navigate complex organizations.

scarface74 7y ago

The curse of the expert beginner: https://daedtech.com/how-developers-stop-learning-rise-of-the-expert-beginner/ https://daedtech.com/how-developers-stop-learning-rise-of-th... And the Dead Sea Affect: http://brucefwebster.com/2008/04/11/the-wetware-crisis-the-dead-sea-effect/ http://brucefwebster.com/2008/04/11/the-wetware-crisis-the-d...

justanother 7y ago

Yet another +1 on this: I worked at the same tiny shop (a partnership-like handful of people) for about 15 years; We navigated a few technological transitions throughout those years and made more money than we probably should have, but when I (at age 40+) found myself at a larger shop, learning the latest tech stacks was definitely not the biggest challenge. Indeed, the challenge was slowing down a bit, submitting thoughtful PRs, coordinating with designers, writing documentation... you know, actual engineering process. I got my hands smacked mightily a few times at first, and I got PRs rejected, but I got the hang of it. And yes, my long-dormant telephone magically started ringing again as the technologies, people, and companies on my Linked profile started catching recruiters' eyes again like they did back in the day. It can happen to anyone, but I can see how it'd be particular common among people over 40. After all, I spent my entire 30s with the attitude of "this is working and making plenty of cash, why change it?"