3 ms·

Anyone have more data on this? What happens to programmers as they age, are they in fact unemployable?

justbaker 7y ago
In general if you don't keep up with the pace/trends, you will become out of touch. I would suggest this is for programmers that stop learning while they age.
commandlinefan 7y ago
I'm over 40 - I found myself suddenly back on the job market a couple of years ago when the company I worked for abruptly went out of business. I was only out of work for three weeks before I found something else. I keep current, though - one of the realities of this profession is that you have to keep learning, and you have to do it "on your own time", if you want to stay in it. Personally, I find that to be a reasonable trade-off, but I know a lot of people don't.
- _bxg1 7y ago
  What subfield do you work in? Size of company, languages/technologies, etc.
  - commandlinefan 7y ago
    Mostly Java, but I went from a small healthcare-based company to a huge entertainment company - there's really no similarity there.
    - _bxg1 7y ago
      Yeah; I get the sense that Java is one of the more reliable (if unsexy) domains to embed yourself in. It's really turning into the new Cobol.
hellisothers 7y ago
I myself am 40 and am gainfully employed and paid well in a top SF tech company, I have several mid to late 40s friends who are highly paid and appreciated at their jobs and have turned down offers from FAANG. I think the key is realizing what more jr engineers able to do well and compete at something else, like depth (or extreme breath) of knowledge, soft skills, organizational skills, and of course leadership.
- pm90 7y ago
  I wish this comment would get more visibility. Experience is extremely valuable when building, maintaining and scaling software systems. The caveat here is of course that you actually spend your early years learning rapidly and not just doing mundane tasks. Self study and keeping up with technology isn’t easy but it’s doable, not impossible. And great engineers with tons of experience will get hired regardless of age.
- manas666 7y ago
  sounds like a Software Architect route, but not everybody is capable of reaching such milestone
ThrowawayR2 7y ago
The $64,000 question is "Does the experience and skills that you have as a 40+ year old make you worth hiring versus a junior developer or fresh graduate?" Unhappily for a number of people, the answer is "not really". This is not a profession in which one can coast. Every year in which you're not learning something that makes you a better and more capable professional, whether at your job or on your own time, is one year in which you're falling behind the rest of the pack.
- twic 7y ago
  I think software has a bit of an "up or out" mechanism built in. If you're 40 and a seasoned team lead, effective manager, unflappable consultant, wizardly engineer, or irreplaceable specialist, then you're fine. If you're 40 and just another serving of cannon fodder, you probably aren't. I know plenty of people well over 40 who are going great guns in the software industry, in leadership or consulting roles. I also have one former colleague who, sadly, isn't - he was a senior developer at a company for several years, but got laid off; he's experienced, but not as quick as he once was, and doesn't have any particular special roles on his CV, so couldn't immediately bounce into another job. I turn 40 next year, and can't honestly put myself into any of the categories i list above, so i should probably start worrying about this myself!
- mikeash 7y ago
  It seems to me that older developers tend to fall into two groups. One group goes, “the old ways were better, this new stuff is crap, I can’t believe they make us use it.” The other group goes, “there’s a lot of good stuff in the old ways, here’s how we can use that experience to our advantage now.” The latter has a much better time.
carapace 7y ago
"Skills pay the bills." Generally, the kind of people you want to work for (by the time you're 40-50) will not give a fig about your age if you can deliver. Here's the thing about being an "old" programmer. If you can't keep up with the newfangled shit, then you probably shouldn't be competing against younger programmers, because at skill-level-parity they will beat you on speed and total hours spent, eh? For example, the fact that FP is finally making it into mainstream development shouldn't throw you if you have had twenty years to experiment with e.g. Haskell, eh? The only thing close to surprising in decades is how well backpropagation works when you have hella data and CPU power. By the time you have been programming computers for twenty years, you should be really good, or you're just a "jobber". There's no shame in that, the world needs jobbers, but yeah, just like in wrestling, there are very few old jobbers. If you're not a jobber, then at some point you see through the fashion-driven parts of the IT ecosystem and figure out what you really want to do with yourself. At this point a lot of people switch to management, or start their own company. But that leaves the field (of programming) to the die-hards that really give a fig about it. So if you're still in the game, late in life, and you're capable, then yes, there is high demand and you can e.g. command hefty salaries. (Disclosure: I'm 45 and employable.)

In general if you don't keep up with the pace/trends, you will become out of touch. I would suggest this is for programmers that stop learning while they age.

commandlinefan 7y ago

I'm over 40 - I found myself suddenly back on the job market a couple of years ago when the company I worked for abruptly went out of business. I was only out of work for three weeks before I found something else. I keep current, though - one of the realities of this profession is that you have to keep learning, and you have to do it "on your own time", if you want to stay in it. Personally, I find that to be a reasonable trade-off, but I know a lot of people don't.

_bxg1 7y ago
What subfield do you work in? Size of company, languages/technologies, etc.
- commandlinefan 7y ago
  Mostly Java, but I went from a small healthcare-based company to a huge entertainment company - there's really no similarity there.
  - _bxg1 7y ago
    Yeah; I get the sense that Java is one of the more reliable (if unsexy) domains to embed yourself in. It's really turning into the new Cobol.

hellisothers 7y ago

I myself am 40 and am gainfully employed and paid well in a top SF tech company, I have several mid to late 40s friends who are highly paid and appreciated at their jobs and have turned down offers from FAANG. I think the key is realizing what more jr engineers able to do well and compete at something else, like depth (or extreme breath) of knowledge, soft skills, organizational skills, and of course leadership.

pm90 7y ago
I wish this comment would get more visibility. Experience is extremely valuable when building, maintaining and scaling software systems. The caveat here is of course that you actually spend your early years learning rapidly and not just doing mundane tasks. Self study and keeping up with technology isn’t easy but it’s doable, not impossible. And great engineers with tons of experience will get hired regardless of age.
manas666 7y ago
sounds like a Software Architect route, but not everybody is capable of reaching such milestone

ThrowawayR2 7y ago

The $64,000 question is "Does the experience and skills that you have as a 40+ year old make you worth hiring versus a junior developer or fresh graduate?" Unhappily for a number of people, the answer is "not really". This is not a profession in which one can coast. Every year in which you're not learning something that makes you a better and more capable professional, whether at your job or on your own time, is one year in which you're falling behind the rest of the pack.

twic 7y ago
I think software has a bit of an "up or out" mechanism built in. If you're 40 and a seasoned team lead, effective manager, unflappable consultant, wizardly engineer, or irreplaceable specialist, then you're fine. If you're 40 and just another serving of cannon fodder, you probably aren't. I know plenty of people well over 40 who are going great guns in the software industry, in leadership or consulting roles. I also have one former colleague who, sadly, isn't - he was a senior developer at a company for several years, but got laid off; he's experienced, but not as quick as he once was, and doesn't have any particular special roles on his CV, so couldn't immediately bounce into another job. I turn 40 next year, and can't honestly put myself into any of the categories i list above, so i should probably start worrying about this myself!
mikeash 7y ago
It seems to me that older developers tend to fall into two groups. One group goes, “the old ways were better, this new stuff is crap, I can’t believe they make us use it.” The other group goes, “there’s a lot of good stuff in the old ways, here’s how we can use that experience to our advantage now.” The latter has a much better time.

carapace 7y ago

"Skills pay the bills." Generally, the kind of people you want to work for (by the time you're 40-50) will not give a fig about your age if you can deliver. Here's the thing about being an "old" programmer. If you can't keep up with the newfangled shit, then you probably shouldn't be competing against younger programmers, because at skill-level-parity they will beat you on speed and total hours spent, eh? For example, the fact that FP is finally making it into mainstream development shouldn't throw you if you have had twenty years to experiment with e.g. Haskell, eh? The only thing close to surprising in decades is how well backpropagation works when you have hella data and CPU power. By the time you have been programming computers for twenty years, you should be really good, or you're just a "jobber". There's no shame in that, the world needs jobbers, but yeah, just like in wrestling, there are very few old jobbers. If you're not a jobber, then at some point you see through the fashion-driven parts of the IT ecosystem and figure out what you really want to do with yourself. At this point a lot of people switch to management, or start their own company. But that leaves the field (of programming) to the die-hards that really give a fig about it. So if you're still in the game, late in life, and you're capable, then yes, there is high demand and you can e.g. command hefty salaries. (Disclosure: I'm 45 and employable.)