6 ms·

at 199 USD yearly phpstorm is prohibitively expensive for small teams and independent devs I don't know the state of the language server for newer php versions

at 199 USD yearly phpstorm is prohibitively expensive for small teams and independent devs I don't know the state of the language server for newer php versions, but intellisense for vscode is too taxing on the CPU for relatively large projects (20k+ lines of code)

antisemiotic 7y ago
>independent devs Don't they fall under the cheaper individual license?
- tenken 7y ago
  This. I use an EDU license for work and buy a personal license for home use, a personal license starts at $83 first year .. I'm on my fifth or so year so it's only $53 yearly ...
- gchamonlive 7y ago
  I saw no reference to cheaper licenses in the PhpStorm website
  - RussianCow 7y ago
    The individual license[0] starts at 89 USD a year, and continues to decrease the longer you pay for it[1] (with a 40% discount for the 3rd consecutive year and onward, putting the final price at 53 USD). [0]: https://www.jetbrains.com/phpstorm/buy/#personal?billing=yearly https://www.jetbrains.com/phpstorm/buy/#personal?billing=yea... [1]: https://sales.jetbrains.com/hc/en-gb/articles/206386064-What-is-a-continuity-discount- https://sales.jetbrains.com/hc/en-gb/articles/206386064-What...
- jasonlotito 7y ago
  Yes, it's $89, $71 the 2nd year, and $53 every year after that.
muglug 7y ago
Try Psalm’s language server: https://psalm.dev/docs/running_psalm/language_server/ https://psalm.dev/docs/running_psalm/language_server/ and let me know how it is for you - I use it on its own codebase (160k LOC) and also on Vimeo’s (much bigger)
- gchamonlive 7y ago
  thanks! will try it out
stephenr 7y ago
~2-5 hours gross income per year is nothing for a good tool.
- gchamonlive 7y ago
  200USD is 1/3 labor month for a regular dev in brazil
- tasuki 7y ago
  It's a little rude to assume how much people are earning. I think you might be surprised how little people earn in certain parts of the world.
- colejohnson66 7y ago
  For people making minimum wage and programming on the side, that’s actually at least about 20 hours or more
h1d 7y ago
Depends on which country you're from but to me $199/year is nothing for what JetBrains gives me (If you go for individual license, you start from $89 down to third year and onwards $53). In fact I pay for all products pack and am in a good discount beyond the third year, like $13/mo.
- gchamonlive 7y ago
  yeah, in Brazil that is quite expensive...
beberlei 7y ago
prohibitively expensive? I think you haven't thought this through. Already Chairs, Desk and Rent for every engineer is more expensive than 200 USD every year. Their salary is many hundred times 200 USD. I pay more for coffee and water that they can get for free every year. Independent devs without income can get PHPStorm at much lower rates.
- gchamonlive 7y ago
  can you tell me how independent devs can access PHPStorm at lower rates? I would love to stop using VSCode. 200USD might be ok for you, but over 800 reais for an IDE is not something I can pay. Notebooks in Brazil are almost three times as expensive as abroad, internet costs are through the roof here as well as living costs... I thought this through, I just have a harder reality than you I guess
  - beberlei 7y ago
    You can get a free license if you are part of an open-source project: https://www.jetbrains.com/opensource/ https://www.jetbrains.com/opensource/ And if you are an individual, the license is just 89 USD. If you are an individual contractor, then maybe you quality for a startup discount? This also gives you 50%: https://www.jetbrains.com/phpstorm/buy/#personal?billing=yearly https://www.jetbrains.com/phpstorm/buy/#personal?billing=yea...
    - gchamonlive 7y ago
      I completely missed the `For individuals` tab...
    - Ayesh 7y ago
      I can also suggest you to approach JetBrains people if you see them in at a conference. They sponsor many PHP conferences, and open source maintainers (don't have to Linus) can request or open-source license. They also have an Early Access Program that you try out beta releases, and they are free of cost.
  - 7y ago
Lazare 7y ago
> at 199 USD yearly phpstorm is prohibitively expensive for small teams and independent devs First, that $200 rate is for teams; independent devs can pay a significantly lower rate (the catch is, you have to pay it personally, not expense it or be reimbursed by an employer). And even for teams, $200 a year is nothing. If you can afford to hire devs in a first world country (US/EU/Aus/etc), you can afford tools for them. NO employer you should possibly consider working for is going to quibble over the license fee; not when they're already paying 1000 times that in fully loaded costs in salary/rent/overheads/benefits/etc. If you can't find $200 for a tool to help you do your job, you're not really a professional. (Again, in a 1st world country.)
- gchamonlive 7y ago
  yes, I realised my mistake of not seeing the For individuals tab... 89 USD is a little more palatable. The thing I do not agree is that you have to pay for tools in order to be a professional. That is quite elitist. People make careers out of free platforms like Linux so for an IDE is not asking much to have a good tool for free. The community benefits from labor put into developing a free tool.
  - Lazare 7y ago
    > The thing I do not agree is that you have to pay for tools in order to be a professional. Absolutely not! You don't have to pay, and there's tons of free tools which are top rate. What I said is that if you're a professional, you're able to pay for the tools that are worth it. If Phpstorm is worth it (and I think it is, but many devs I respect feel otherwise), $200 is deeply affordable by Western standards. As a professional, you should have a budget for things like software licenses, books, donations to open source projects you really like, etc., whether that comes out of your funds as a consultant, or team's budget, etc. If your employer is too stingy to cover things like Phpstorm licenses...they're not treating you like a professional. (Again, in first world/Western countries. Budgets and pay scales are different in some places!)
    - gchamonlive 7y ago
hn_user2 7y ago
Couple interesting things about the Jetbrains licenses. - The yearly cost is purely for updates. Meaning you could just pay one time, get updates for a year and then continue using whatever version you have. - For small teams they offer a 50% discount (less than 10 people, in business less than 5 years) - If this is perhaps an open source project you can get it for free. I got sucked into the Jetbrains family because of just how good their PhpStorm is. Especially in regards to refactoring and debugging tools. I only wish their Javascript tools were anywhere near as good as their Php tools.
- eitland 7y ago
  > I only wish their Javascript tools were anywhere near as good as their Php tools. I guess this is partially because JavaScript is a much harder language to write good tooling for, but I'm open for other explanations.
- NightlyDev 7y ago
  This isn't completely correct. A few years ago JetBrains changed the license. You get the version available when you pay, and then you get a year of updates, which you can only continue using if you renew the license. So you can only use the version available as of the moment you pay for a license.

antisemiotic 7y ago

>independent devs Don't they fall under the cheaper individual license?

tenken 7y ago
This. I use an EDU license for work and buy a personal license for home use, a personal license starts at $83 first year .. I'm on my fifth or so year so it's only $53 yearly ...
gchamonlive 7y ago
I saw no reference to cheaper licenses in the PhpStorm website
- RussianCow 7y ago
  The individual license[0] starts at 89 USD a year, and continues to decrease the longer you pay for it[1] (with a 40% discount for the 3rd consecutive year and onward, putting the final price at 53 USD). [0]: https://www.jetbrains.com/phpstorm/buy/#personal?billing=yearly https://www.jetbrains.com/phpstorm/buy/#personal?billing=yea... [1]: https://sales.jetbrains.com/hc/en-gb/articles/206386064-What-is-a-continuity-discount- https://sales.jetbrains.com/hc/en-gb/articles/206386064-What...
jasonlotito 7y ago
Yes, it's $89, $71 the 2nd year, and $53 every year after that.

muglug 7y ago

Try Psalm’s language server: https://psalm.dev/docs/running_psalm/language_server/ https://psalm.dev/docs/running_psalm/language_server/ and let me know how it is for you - I use it on its own codebase (160k LOC) and also on Vimeo’s (much bigger)

gchamonlive 7y ago
thanks! will try it out

stephenr 7y ago

~2-5 hours gross income per year is nothing for a good tool.

gchamonlive 7y ago
200USD is 1/3 labor month for a regular dev in brazil
tasuki 7y ago
It's a little rude to assume how much people are earning. I think you might be surprised how little people earn in certain parts of the world.
colejohnson66 7y ago
For people making minimum wage and programming on the side, that’s actually at least about 20 hours or more

h1d 7y ago

Depends on which country you're from but to me $199/year is nothing for what JetBrains gives me (If you go for individual license, you start from $89 down to third year and onwards $53). In fact I pay for all products pack and am in a good discount beyond the third year, like $13/mo.

gchamonlive 7y ago
yeah, in Brazil that is quite expensive...

beberlei 7y ago

prohibitively expensive? I think you haven't thought this through. Already Chairs, Desk and Rent for every engineer is more expensive than 200 USD every year. Their salary is many hundred times 200 USD. I pay more for coffee and water that they can get for free every year. Independent devs without income can get PHPStorm at much lower rates.

gchamonlive 7y ago
can you tell me how independent devs can access PHPStorm at lower rates? I would love to stop using VSCode. 200USD might be ok for you, but over 800 reais for an IDE is not something I can pay. Notebooks in Brazil are almost three times as expensive as abroad, internet costs are through the roof here as well as living costs... I thought this through, I just have a harder reality than you I guess
- beberlei 7y ago
  You can get a free license if you are part of an open-source project: https://www.jetbrains.com/opensource/ https://www.jetbrains.com/opensource/ And if you are an individual, the license is just 89 USD. If you are an individual contractor, then maybe you quality for a startup discount? This also gives you 50%: https://www.jetbrains.com/phpstorm/buy/#personal?billing=yearly https://www.jetbrains.com/phpstorm/buy/#personal?billing=yea...
  - gchamonlive 7y ago
    I completely missed the `For individuals` tab...
  - Ayesh 7y ago
    I can also suggest you to approach JetBrains people if you see them in at a conference. They sponsor many PHP conferences, and open source maintainers (don't have to Linus) can request or open-source license. They also have an Early Access Program that you try out beta releases, and they are free of cost.
- 7y ago

Lazare 7y ago

> at 199 USD yearly phpstorm is prohibitively expensive for small teams and independent devs First, that $200 rate is for teams; independent devs can pay a significantly lower rate (the catch is, you have to pay it personally, not expense it or be reimbursed by an employer). And even for teams, $200 a year is nothing. If you can afford to hire devs in a first world country (US/EU/Aus/etc), you can afford tools for them. NO employer you should possibly consider working for is going to quibble over the license fee; not when they're already paying 1000 times that in fully loaded costs in salary/rent/overheads/benefits/etc. If you can't find $200 for a tool to help you do your job, you're not really a professional. (Again, in a 1st world country.)

gchamonlive 7y ago
yes, I realised my mistake of not seeing the For individuals tab... 89 USD is a little more palatable. The thing I do not agree is that you have to pay for tools in order to be a professional. That is quite elitist. People make careers out of free platforms like Linux so for an IDE is not asking much to have a good tool for free. The community benefits from labor put into developing a free tool.
- Lazare 7y ago
  > The thing I do not agree is that you have to pay for tools in order to be a professional. Absolutely not! You don't have to pay, and there's tons of free tools which are top rate. What I said is that if you're a professional, you're able to pay for the tools that are worth it. If Phpstorm is worth it (and I think it is, but many devs I respect feel otherwise), $200 is deeply affordable by Western standards. As a professional, you should have a budget for things like software licenses, books, donations to open source projects you really like, etc., whether that comes out of your funds as a consultant, or team's budget, etc. If your employer is too stingy to cover things like Phpstorm licenses...they're not treating you like a professional. (Again, in first world/Western countries. Budgets and pay scales are different in some places!)
  - gchamonlive 7y ago

hn_user2 7y ago

Couple interesting things about the Jetbrains licenses. - The yearly cost is purely for updates. Meaning you could just pay one time, get updates for a year and then continue using whatever version you have. - For small teams they offer a 50% discount (less than 10 people, in business less than 5 years) - If this is perhaps an open source project you can get it for free. I got sucked into the Jetbrains family because of just how good their PhpStorm is. Especially in regards to refactoring and debugging tools. I only wish their Javascript tools were anywhere near as good as their Php tools.

eitland 7y ago
> I only wish their Javascript tools were anywhere near as good as their Php tools. I guess this is partially because JavaScript is a much harder language to write good tooling for, but I'm open for other explanations.
NightlyDev 7y ago
This isn't completely correct. A few years ago JetBrains changed the license. You get the version available when you pay, and then you get a year of updates, which you can only continue using if you renew the license. So you can only use the version available as of the moment you pay for a license.