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Living Near Trees, Not Just Green Space, Improves Wellbeing
- muizelaar 7y agoActual study: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2739050?resultClick=3 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle...
- evancox100 7y ago"Exposure to grass was, surprisingly, associated with higher odds of psychological distress." Anyone who has had to maintain a lawn will likely find this unsurprising.
- ilikehurdles 7y agoI wonder how much of that association is precisely because of this pressure/requirement in a lot of communities to maintain grassy lawns, rather than anything innate about grassy landscapes themselves.
- alot 7y agoI think you are on to something. I grew up in west Texas and while there was no canopy there were/are vast untouched lands of native grasses. I still get the benefits described when I go out there.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- driverdan 7y agoNot if you just mow it and let whatever grows grow.
- sokoloff 7y agoI am a borderline lawn nut. After spending a lot of time getting the lawn well established, healthy, and vibrant, the on-going maintenance to keep it looking very nice is not particularly onerous. I doubt it's even 25 hours of total labor across the year, all told (for a 6500 ft^2 of lawn city lot).
- stinos 7y agoI'm the opposite. I don't like lawns, not just for the looks but mainly because as far as biodiversity goes a trimmed lawn is almost dead. So I converted the lawns which came with the house into meadows. Nature thrives, and as far as maintainance goes it is also beneficial: depending on conditions I'm mowing twice or ideally just once a year. Even with a scythe it takes less time than standard lanw maintainance.
- aezell 7y agoIf you follow with some of the "ancestral genetic memory" theories, this makes sense. Our species came about in a grassland punctuated by rocky outcroppings and trees. Trees and rocks often meant safety from the predators below. Open grass meant exposure on all sides. We don't really think of ourselves this way anymore, but not that long ago, humans sat more in the center of the food chain that we currently do.
- interfixus 7y agoAround 800 square meters of lawn. Every week, or every second week, depending on season and rainfall, I plug in a mower and mow it, a bit of exercise and fresh air thrown in for free. If for some reason I skip a turn, grass and weeds grow a little taller. Where's the stress?
- gravy 7y agoDo Bonsai trees count?
- ceejayoz 7y agoNo, at least not for the purposes of this particular study. > The researchers report that living in areas where 30 percent or more of the outdoor space is dominated by tree canopy was associated with 31 percent lower odds of psychological distress, compared to people living in areas with 0 to 9 percent tree canopy.
- Causality1 7y agoNot surprising. As someone who grew up in rural and suburban environments, big cities feel intensely depressing. I go there and nothing I look at makes me feel happy. I'm sure people who grew up there feel differently and see things I don't see, but for me Manhattan feels as dead as the surface of Mars.
- technothrasher 7y agoI'm with you, having grown up rural I can't stand being in the city. Makes me feel boxed in and anxious. But I've got friends who are the exact opposite, one who grew up in NYC and now lives outside of Boston who has to get back to NYC at least once every two weeks or she gets depressed. But I've also got a son who grew up here rural with me and can't ever seem to get enough of NYC. So... takes all kinds, I guess.
- rxhernandez 7y agoIt's because a lack of variation in people gets depressing. I live in the mountains with a population that's smaller than the small town I was raised in, in the LA metro. I need to get back to a major city at least once a month; I need to feel that enveloping feeling of wonder and possibility since things get to feeling so stagnant in the mountains after a bit; I need to see people driving at their ambitions with their mom and pop shops that have these creative gimmicks that you can tell they spent late nights thinking of as opposed to people on mountain time who don't really give a damn about their work and know that by simply existing they can scrape by.
- outworlder 7y agoWhat are you taking about? On Mars at least you can be left in peace (and in the darkness at night) to contemplate the wonders of the universe, for as long as your oxygen lasts. Try that in Manhattan.
- galangalalgol 7y agoI'm like you, I get tree withdrawal sometimes. I couldn't live in a desert either. Joshua trees or mesquite don't scratch the same instinctual itch.
- outworlder 7y agoUnsurprising result. I was so sad (figuratively speaking) when we moved from an older office - but one which had trees all around and even running water - to a very modern, but boring open floor glass paned antfarm-like building. After some time I got literally depressed. Walking around the concreted block did nothing for me anymore. No trees, no water, no birds, no squirrels. Just cars and a lot of heat in the summer - and a lot of wind during the winter.
- bitwize 7y agoWe ridicule Milton Waddams, but at least he could appreciate the value of sitting by the window and watching the married squirrels.
- abledon 7y agoyeah totally. I will take jobs that pay less but have an interesting office location, usually in a less developed outer area of the city where vegetation and lots of walking space exist
- devoply 7y agoPeople need high quality cages with open floors... Not nature, take paradise put up a parking lot... It's more profitable.
- tdb7893 7y agoI once worked at a place that had a mile of walking paths through an adjacent prairie. I walked it every day that the weather was nice and it was amazing. I was so sad when I changed jobs and the office was in the city.
- enlyth 7y agoI work in central London and feel the same way. Coworkers are often surprised that when I moved to London, I chose to go quite a bit north and have to take the tube for 45 minutes to get to work. But I live on a one way street with no traffic, and when I look outside my window, there is a giant field of grass with lots of huge trees. I can go outside, lie down in the grass, enjoy the peace and quiet. I will watch the squirrels outside on my days working from home, trying to fight the crows for food. The crows outsmart them every time, without hesitation. It's part of what keeps me sane in this big city.
- mpweiher 7y agoOne of the reasons I love Berlin. City. With LOTS and LOTS of trees.
- learc83 7y agoThat's my favorite thing about flying back into Atlanta--seeing the tree coverage.
- akurilin 7y agoSame with the area around Golden Gate Park in SF, being close to so much well-maintained and curated nature is delightful. The place is a real treasure.
- rlonn 7y agoThe words "well-maintained" and "curated" don't usually rhyme very well with "nature", IMO. Real nature is by definition unmaintained. When it's maintained it becomes a park/garden, and loses more or less all its diversity. Fine, if you just want to look at some green leaves (which is great in a city) but we shouldn't call it nature just because something is alive there.
- davidjnelson 7y agoYa if you want to live in SF and have trees, Mill Valley is a far better choice in my experience.
- skohan 7y agoYes. Berlin to me in Summer is trees and bikes and water.
- davidjnelson 7y agoBerlin has trees. I find it really dreary though. I clearly perceived some sort of “guilt heaviness” that pervades the area, with world war 2 monuments scattered around. I got a vibe that because a lot of people are children of people who were Nazis, they felt bad even though they didn’t personally commit the war crimes. It was pretty startling honestly coming from Northern California. Landing at SFO felt like returning to heaven. This New York Times opinion piece goes into it in more detail https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/10/opinion/germanys-nazi-past-is-still-present.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/10/opinion/germanys-nazi-pas...
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- c3534l 7y agoI hate when journalists confuse correlation with causation. It's one of the most basic things you have to know to be be capable of writing about science and the fact that they failed the first step tells me they shouldn't be journalists.
- 6gvONxR4sf7o 7y agoCan we get a title change from "Improves" to "Associated With?" The causal affect is mentioned nowhere but the (incorrect) title. All of the content and quotes from the authors use "associated with."
- cookingrobot 7y agoInteresting.. it doesn't seem likely that wellbeing causes trees. So what are the other possible arrows of causation? Maybe healthy people choose to live near trees?
- moron4hire 7y agoIn 2008, I was living in Central Pennsylvania, taking many a weekend hike along a short section of the Appalachian trail that ran within a short drive from my home. Then I got assigned to a project in Bloomington, Illinois. I spent a month out there, this strange land completely devoid of trees. I never thought of myself as an "outdoors" person before that, I just liked hanging out with some friends and getting a little exercise. After Bloomington, I realized just how important trees were to my mental health.
- sudosteph 7y agoI feel you. I've done road trips accross the country, and every time I go through those midwest states I get this low-key dread that I barely notice at first. But then, once I get to a place with rolling hills and trees on the horizon, I immediately notice how relieved I feel. I always attributed it to just wanting familiarity in the landscape, but maybe trees are a bigger part of that than I realized. The smell of forests is also much more pleasant than fields, so perhaps it's a combination of visuals and odors being "off" that makes me feel uncomfortable.
- cheeko1234 7y agoThe article mentions Overstory by Richard Powers It's an amazing book. https://www.amazon.com/Overstory-Novel-Richard-Powers/dp/039363552X#customerReviews https://www.amazon.com/Overstory-Novel-Richard-Powers/dp/039...
- ga-vu 7y agoI moved to another city because the mayor of the previous city I lived in had some crusade against trees in that town. Living near trees is the best. I have a cherry tree growing outside my window right now. Still miss the three poplars I used to have at my old apartment.
- rland 7y agoSo living in a desert should be correlated with psychological distress, right? Is that the case?
- jerryalex 7y agoWhat are some great cities with surrounding nature for software engineers? I was looking at Atlanta, GA which I heard has the most trees for a city. According to Wikipedia, it has 47.9% tree coverage
- sudosteph 7y agoRaleigh NC is called "City of Oaks" for a reason. I feel like it probably has more tree coverage than Atlanta, but it's much smaller too. Still, great place to live and a pretty solid tech scene between downtown offices (RedHat, Salesforce, Citrix) and RTP + Durham jobs a short drive away (SAS, NetApp, Cisco, Epic Games). We also are working on a new 300 acre park project that's only about a mile from downtown, so I'm really excited to spend time there when Fall comes around.
- jerryalex 7y agoThanks, Raleigh is definitely in my top 10. I'm currently living in Texas so my nature options are pretty limited. I do appreciate not having an income tax though.
- will_pseudonym 7y agoPortland, OR is a great candidate for this, IMO. In the city is "Forest Park" which is more like a forest than a park. There are tons of trails, and you're less than an hour from dozens of trails in the Colombia River Gorge.
- moojd 7y agoAtlanta is great! There are places like this[0] inside the perimeter. My old apartment had a trail down to the river and we would drive half a mile up the road and then tube back down to my apartment. [0] https://www.google.com/maps/@33.8906588,-84.4418735,3a,90y,195.6h,75.96t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipMQV28gVF26XBGMVp7n19ecRY_HBLrp_qqZ0UPp!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipMQV28gVF26XBGMVp7n19ecRY_HBLrp_qqZ0UPp%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-0.37840083-ya81.15739-ro5.623287-fo100!7i7200!8i3600 https://www.google.com/maps/@33.8906588,-84.4418735,3a,90y,1...
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- tjridesbikes 7y agoWe specifically moved to a part of Boston with lots of trees. All the benefits of public transit, nightlife, and resources, but as I look out my home-office window right now, I see a big tree, a dog park, and very small forest of trees right behind that. I can't see another building, and its wonderful.
- czechdeveloper 7y agoI moved to place with trees. Paid extra for that. After a year in, the forest died due to drought (and bugs). Now I'm looking at forest being cut down and removed. It's quite miserable feeling.
- bluGill 7y agoMake sure you look for native trees. They are much more likely to survive drought. Hard to say what to do about bugs which are likely non-native invasive species though. Other than plant a variety of different trees so bugs don't get them all at once.
- 0_gravitas 7y agoI wonder if green space and trees still improve well being if someone is allergic to them (not deathly so, just enough to be a nuisance). I myself am especially allergic to the flora around me, and I always dream of moving somewhere cold where everything is nice and dead and can't hurt me.
- colechristensen 7y agoYou can make your living space a low-grade cleanroom with a decent HEPA filter or two (the 99.97 kind) for at most a few hundred dollars. If I close the windows my apartment easily achieves a PM2.5 score of 0. You can't so much create an "outside" environment for so little effort. My biggest grievance with where I live is that being "outside" somewhere that concrete and brief strips of grass for dogs to pee in aren't the dominant space occupiers is work and I'm not just outside, I'm at a destination.
- neop1x 7y agothere are lots of species and often you are not allergic to all of them + there are some antihistamine pills ;)
- 0_gravitas 7y agoThe way that it seems to work judging by blood tests I've gotten over my life is that the more I'm around something, the more allergic I become, all of the things around me, the trees, the animals, the food I eat, etc. I've become extremely allergic to. If I go somewhere with completely new plant life I should be ok in theory, I have done this once and my allergens were pretty much gone, but I dont have reason to assume that they wouldn't come back. I've got some fucky gene stuff going on in general, and there are other reasons why the cold would be nice in general.. and i can guarantee that i have an extensive morning/night drug regimen, and have tried about every allergy med i could get my hands on, they can take the edge off, but it will never go away.
- johnchristopher 7y agoYears ago, I went to a photography exhibition. Theme was the city. The artist's motivation was the idea that we - humans - live in a mineral world (cement, concrete, glass and bricks) now. But we evolved to live and prosper in high grass and trees, in an organic world. Also, long ago I read that humans liked to sit on benches in park because it feels like we are hiding in the edge of the forests, looking for things from a safe distant place.
- Rothnargoth 7y ago"Exposure to grass was, surprisingly, associated with higher odds of psychological distress." I'm guessing it's the constant maintenance of a lawn that stresses people, and in this case, other people's lawns. That or you're a youtuber or streamer, and the constant sound of lawn equipment is driving you nuts.
- lowdose 7y agoGrass at the neighbors is always greener even for youtubers.
- core-questions 7y agoSurprisingly, I find my lawn maintenance to be supremely de-stressing. I get to slap on headphones and listen to podcasts or music while doing mild physical labour that results in something becoming more aesthetically pleasing than it had been previously.
- pastor_elm 7y agoBeing out on the open plain exposes you to predators.
- tropdrop 7y agoYou don't have to be a youtuber or streamer to have the leaf blower drive you nuts - in a suburban setting, you're almost guaranteed a 7am wake-up call from one of these machines on a Saturday. It just takes one punctilious neighbor.
- antpls 7y agoYou have good points. I would add : constantly have to watch your steps to make sure you dont walk on some animal poop, or some angry bee/hornet that was just lying there
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- evan_ 7y agoUntil a massive ice storm causes one of those trees to fall on your house.
- JoeAltmaier 7y agoI think its something to do with the complex, fractal imagery provided by trees etc. The simple planar surfaces of built spaces are profoundly unstimulating.
- skohan 7y agoI think it's also just the way trees breath. I live in a wooded area of my city, and when I go to the concrete downtown it just feels worse. Like it's much hotter, and the air is stale.
- sudosteph 7y agoI feel the opposite. I'm way more prone to feeling overstimulated in urban environments. Though it's nearly impossible to say if that's from the environment, the people, or both. Forests and beaches are both very calming to me though. I think it's the consistent, but non-threatening landscape and background noises and smells. I'm not over-stimulated by those natural environments, so I have peace to introspect. In cities I'm always watching my surroundings and trying to figure out where I am based on the buildings and roads around me, so I definitely feel like I notice and am stimulated by the city. I'm just kind of exhausted afterward and not able to relax because it demands so much attention.
- Feuilles_Mortes 7y agoThere is a tree directly outside of the window right next to my bed. In the morning, I watch the variety of birds (changing with the seasons) flit around the branches, socializing with each other. It's simple, but a highlight of my day. I'm moving in a few weeks and this tree will be one of the things I miss most about my apartment.
- miles 7y agoA well-known refrain, I know, but correlation does not imply causation[0]. Spurious Correlations[1] has been posted here many times[2], but a few representative examples may be worth sharing just the same: Per capita cheese consumption correlates with Number of people who died by becoming tangled in their bedsheets Total revenue generated by arcades correlates with Computer science doctorates awarded in the US Japanese passenger cars sold in the US correlates with Suicides by crashing of motor vehicle [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_cau... [1] https://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations https://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations [2] https://hn.algolia.com/?query=spurious%20correlations&sort=byPopularity&prefix&page=0&dateRange=all&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?query=spurious%20correlations&sort=b...
- gdubs 7y agoSure, but this article cites a large study that seems to correct for a lot of variables. Might be more productive to discuss specific aspects of the study you think are flawed.
- majinuub 7y agoCould this be caused by a deeply ingrained instinct from our hominid ancestors that associates trees with safety? Like Miles stated, correlation doesn't imply causation. It makes you think though!
- ineedasername 7y agoThis is another study that makes me wonder what the real cause may be. Areas with trees, in an urban setting, tend to be more expensive locations. So, is it the the trees, or the higher socio-economic status? In suburban and rural areas where trees are more common, even if the cost of living is low, everything is less dense, people tend to have larger dwellings at lower prices, etc. So, again, is it the trees or the other covarying factors? Are there any studies like this that transform an area into a green space (with trees, I suppose) and show pre/post outcomes? Ones that weren't driven by the community? (Where that could indicate it was simply a nicer more cohesive community, with that as the cause instead of the green stuff) That said, this is the sort of result that feels like it should be true, but then those are the results we should most be thorough about our methods to avoid confirmation bias. Research is hard!
- gdubs 7y agoThey say in the article that the study corrected for a wide range of variables including age, income level, etc.
- sjwright 7y agoDid they correct for people’s behavior or skills that would cause them to choose one place to live over another? Living in a regional or rural area is within most people's means as long as relevant work is nearby. Perhaps people who are more suited to the the sort of work that is more often done in densely populated areas are inherently more depressed.
- edgarvaldes 7y agoA long time ago I was a student of a school that had some magical gardens, but some classrooms had the windows placed above the eye level, while others had windows where you could see the gardens (and little else). The difference in the environment, feeling and atmosphere in both areas (which were otherwise identical) was like night and day.
- lonelappde 7y agoIt certainly would be strange if wealth-independent happiness caused people to live near trees but trees didn't make them happy.
- jnurmine 7y agoLiving near trees implies living in an area where space usage is prioritized for nature instead of the stacked concrete boxes most people (have to?) live in. It is likely a less stressful environment overall than places filled with just concrete walls, asphalt and, at best, some grass. Personally I find tree tops swaying in the wind oddly hypnotic and relaxing. I've thought of why... One reason could be that babies around here are (like I was) put into baby trolleys to sleep outside, summer and winter. If living near trees, chances are that tree tops are the last thing one sees before sleep and the first thing when one wakes up.
- mdgrech23 7y agoIt's evolution. The windows XP homescreen w/ the rolling green hills was chosen b/c it puts us humans at ease. Our monkey brains like wide open pastures b/c we can easily see any incoming predators making us feel safe.
- spectramax 7y agoWow, such an interesting perspective. I never thought about it that way!
- mintplant 7y agoThe article suggests that something else---something particular to trees, not just open green spaces---is at work here. > More intriguingly, they also found that exposure to low-lying vegetation was not consistently associated with any particular health outcome. Exposure to grass was, surprisingly, associated with higher odds of psychological distress. The wellness-boosting feature, then, appears to be the trees. > The researchers report that living in areas where 30 percent or more of the outdoor space is dominated by tree canopy was associated with 31 percent lower odds of psychological distress, compared to people living in areas with 0 to 9 percent tree canopy. “Similar results were found for self-related fair to poor general health,” with tree-rich residents reporting better health overall, the researchers write.
- tropdrop 7y agoIn the article, wide open pastures with no trees were "associated with higher odds of psychological distress." Don't our distant (monkey) cousins live in and amongst trees, usually? Open pastures with no tree cover just mean easy pickings for an incoming predator, so maybe that hints at why it causes us "distress."
- thom 7y agoI live in Sheffield, which is about as green as cities get in the UK. I try and walk every day - you can walk from my front door through woods all the way into the Peak District and stand a good chance of not seeing more than a couple of souls. Lately my son has started joining me and honestly, it’s just the most nourishing part of my life at the moment. I am not sure I could survive on the huddled trees and pruned green rectangles disbursed throughout somewhere like London, and even the more extensive parks just don’t feel real to me.
- mattlondon 7y agoTry somewhere like Hampstead Heath in London. It's basically a large (Google maps reckons 50 mins to walk from one end to the other) wild heathland with woods and lakes but with very little 'manicuring' but only 10 mins from the centre by tube. Pics: https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=Hampstead%20heath&tbs=imgo:1 https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=Hampstead%20heath&t...
- thom 7y agoYeah I have been there. First, kudos if you live within walking distance. Second, it’s busy and still doesn’t feel very wild to me.
- Waterluvian 7y agoI moved earlier this summer. My home office is situated in front of huge bay windows looking out into the canopy of a forest of 120 foot maple trees that my house is in. It has made a huge difference, especially when I'm doing tedious programming work.
- jefftk 7y agoThe article is: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2739050 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle... As a correlational study, and as with any study like this I'm worried that something they're not controlling for, or not sufficiently controlling for, is the actual cause. They say: > Self-rated health, depression, anxiety, and risk of psychological distress have been previously shown to be associated with green space in some cross-sectional and longitudinal studies. A range of socioeconomic and demographic factors are likely to confound these associations by contributing to mental health outcomes and to neighborhood selection. Previous research suggests that these factors are likely to include personal socioeconomic circumstances, such as how much money people have, whether they are employed, and their level of education, and other factors, such as age, sex, and relationship status. Accordingly, in this study, we adjusted for baseline measures of age, sex, annual household income, economic status (eg, employed, retired, or unemployed), highest educational qualification, and couple status. There are a lot of measures that affect human wellbeing that this doesn't take into account, however. For example, wealth and class aren't present. I understand why it would be hard for them to adjust for everything, but that also makes the study much less predictive. I wonder if there are any natural experiments we could look at where blights or storms that caused sudden reductions in tree cover in a mostly independent fashion?
- kazinator 7y ago> New research finds that, when a neighborhood’s green space leads to better health outcomes, tree canopy provides most of the benefits. Is it the trees? Or is it the higher income status of the people who can afford to live in the nicer neighborhood? Complete lack of control for irrelevant variables here.
- pacomerh 7y agoWe recently moved to an apartment that is front facing the street with trees that you can see through the windows, and might be obvious but we're usually in much better mood than before, I think it's important to consider these things. The vibe of having a bit of nature and natural light changes things completely, might even inspire you to create more things. We used to live in apartments that were mostly surrounded by concrete and it was honestly a bit depressing. I suggest that if you have the opportunity, even if you have to pay a bit more, try to go for it, the quality of life improves tremendously.
- hsitz 7y agoIt's not necessarily related to why living near trees improves well being, but I like the idea of Shinrin Yoku, or "forest bathing": https://www.webmd.com/balance/news/20190611/forest-bathing-nature-time-hot-health-advice https://www.webmd.com/balance/news/20190611/forest-bathing-n... Nice youtube mini-documentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jPNll1Ccn0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jPNll1Ccn0
- rgrieselhuber 7y agoI’ve noticed that there is always a lack of trees in impoverished areas. It almost seems like the trees are deliberately cut down in favor of concrete in areas designated.
- underwater 7y agoI've always assumed thats because trees can be time consuming, take a lot of space and can be expensive to maintain. Essentially, in a city, they are a luxury.
- smnplk 7y agoI wish I could go live in Bhutan.
- loopback_device 7y agoyeah, no shit... who would'e thought. like homo sapiens ain't an animal.
- PorterDuff 7y agoI think of high contrast areas as having the strongest mood boosting. By that I mean river fronts, visible mountain ranges, the beach, the edges of forests. No doubt trees in cities are visually pleasing, living in the middle of dark dense forest not so much. 'round these parts, trees seem to perform two useful functions. They fall on houses during storms (quite common) or they burn down whole towns. Be careful what you wish for.
- davidjnelson 7y agoRight, Paradise CA is a great example of how dangerous that can be. Sure was a beautiful place though!
- vba 7y agoInterested if places with evergreen trees (e.g. PNW) fair better than areas with mostly deciduous trees?
- simonebrunozzi 7y agoPossibly related to the Biophilia Hypothesis [0]. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biophilia_hypothesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biophilia_hypothesis
- mobilefriendly 7y agoThis finding fits in with other research that trees absorb fine particulate matter (PM 2.5). PM 2.5 is a hazardous air pollution from burning coal and many other sources.
- squirrelicus 7y agoMy favorite part is the anti-NIMBY culture that usually dominates here is experiencing cognitive dissonance right now and they don't even know it. Bring up housing in SF and the people complaining about no trees right now are suddenly shuffling everyone into tiny uniform boxes.
- vpontis 7y agoCould you expand on this? I'm anti-NIMBY but I don't understand your comment. I don't think anti-NIMBY's are necessarily anti-trees or anti-parks?
- ryandev3 7y agoyeah, it feels good
- m0zg 7y agoI bet living outside the city would improve wellbeing even more. At least it did for me.
- bamin 7y ago"Tolkien was an unabashed partisan of trees". Hear hear
- deepGem 7y agoReminds me of a public library in Hillsboro. Surrounded by trees, the place was a heaven of peace to work. It also had a coffee shop. https://www.hillsboro-oregon.gov/departments/library https://www.hillsboro-oregon.gov/departments/library
- Razengan 7y agoIt's a bizarre, comical state when obvious things such as this (and similar posts like "Climate change will cause a financial crisis!") have to be explicitly spelled out and backed with "data." That said, modern civilization, technology and "nature" don't have to be mutually exclusive. See Japan, Switzerland, Singapore and similar places where there is plenty of unspoiled/augmented nature right next to some of the most modern/luxurious human habitats in the world. The ideal balance would be something like the sci-fi'ish concept of arcologies [0]; monolithic, self-sufficient, clean megastructures surrounded by natural wildernesses for people to escape to at their leisure. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcology
- thfuran 7y ago>It's a bizarre, comical state when obvious things [...] have to be explicitly spelled out and backed with "data." Throughout history there have been many "obvious" things that were widely believed and wildly inaccurate.