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I'm interested in the HN feedback on this. Almost everyone agrees that when you have a small team startup that working together in an office is important. The

I'm interested in the HN feedback on this. Almost everyone agrees that when you have a small team startup that working together in an office is important. Then at some point it goes from everyone together as a good idea into a "corporate campus" and it seems a lot of people think the "corporate campus" is an evil bad idea. Is it really more about the company attitude than location?

wmf 16y ago
What else would you do if you have thousands of employees? You have to put them somewhere.
- sliverstorm 16y ago
  If you adopt sardine-style packaging, you might be able to keep them in a small office. Just think of how close everybody'd be!
mattwdelong 16y ago
I`m actually curious as to what the campus looks like myself (interior). I have been searching for images with no avail. If anyone finds anything, link me?
- elptacek 16y ago
  I used to work on this campus in 1997. It kinda reminded me of an apartment complex in that there is a large open areas surrounded by free-standing buildings. At the time, there was a dry cleaners drop off, at least one small restaurant and an exercise facility. There's also a trail that rings the entire campus. In the building I had access to, the outer walls were built out with small offices that would fit 1-4 people and the middle part of the buildings had reception desks and labs. Everything was taupe and tan with the medium purple Sun color in contrast. The offices have nice large windows looking over the parking lot and the marshes beyond. There was plenty of nice break space, and I remember being surprised to find a room designated for women to pump breastmilk. But then, there were a lot of women on that campus. ETA: if you click on the map link in the article and zoom in, you'll get a pretty good look. The building off to the left side of the picture that is most separate from the rest was the exercise facility. The building in the upper right is the one I worked in.
  - portman 16y ago
    Did you feel like there wasn't enough outdoor space? Comparing this (via aerial imagery) to working on the Microsoft campus in the late 90s, it seems like Sun campus is mostly indoors, as opposed to the "college" feel of Microsoft or Google. I would think that Facebook would want to emulate Google's campuses more, with a larger number of smaller buildings to promote a more collegiate atmosphere. But this is all based on four 45-degree aerial shots, so I'm curious what your thoughts are on the place.
    - elptacek 16y ago
      Quite the opposite. I've never worked in another place where it was more inviting to be outside.
    - philwelch 16y ago
      It doesn't seem like Facebook has much choice, really. Even Google had to take over an existing campus (SGI) that fit their requirements. Can you imagine the expense of building a completely new campus in Silicon Valley? Apple's been planning to build a new campus for years. Even they had to buy an existing property (HP's old campus), and reportedly are planning to build an entirely new campus on the same land. As successful and rich as Facebook is, they aren't Apple-rich. They probably aren't even Apple-picky about what their new campus is like--not that they don't care, but it's hard to imagine anyone else having the same level of perfectionism as Apple.
  - thwarted 16y ago
    I remember being surprised to find a room designated for women to pump breastmilk. But then, there were a lot of women on that campus. I believe that, in California, companies of a certain size need to provide a room for this independent of how many women the company employs. From http://www.ncsl.org/default.aspx?tabid=14389 http://www.ncsl.org/default.aspx?tabid=14389 : Cal. Labor Code § 1030 et seq. (2001) provides that employers need to allow a break and provide a room for a mother who desires to express milk in private. http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=94664316561+0+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=9466431...
- gregholmberg 16y ago
  The Sun Quentin buildings enclose a long, crescent-shaped central courtyard. http://www.flickr.com/photos/-miko-/1001185172/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/-miko-/1001185172/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/fallenpegasus/2979890601/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/fallenpegasus/2979890601/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/j3ss1c/2395178005/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/j3ss1c/2395178005/ Here is a series of shots showing the new interior. Looks like the nice private offices are history, in favor of open-plan. http://www.flickr.com/photos/nicksieger/3312863160/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/nicksieger/3312863160/ If you continue searching, you can cut out some clutter by using Sun's identifier for the two Menlo Park campuses: "MPK".
immad 16y ago
Why would a corporate campus be seen as an evil bad idea?
- dirtae 16y ago
  I don't think that the idea of a corporate campus is evil or bad, but I do think that the implementation of corporate campuses is often very bad. Most corporate campuses that I've visited rely on large squarish buildings, which means lots of interior office space with no windows. They also tend to be isolated from the surrounding area by huge parking lots, with limited walkability to nearby restaurants and shops. It should be possible to build a corporate campus that doesn't suffer from these problems, but I'm unable to think of an example.
  - DougWebb 16y ago
    "Peopleware" describes a solution to this problem. The basic idea is to design office buildings like hotels, where every room has plenty of windows. The buildings have to be long and thin rather than blocky.
    - maigret 16y ago
      Yes... Or square with a courtyard in the middle.
    - pmjordan 16y ago
      The rounded triangular blocks of the Vienna International Centre (Vienna UN offices) are a curious architectual solution to this problem. Having been built in the 70s, they're not exactly pretty (and currently being cleared of asbestos), but they do provide a vast number of well-lit offices along with larger central areas. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_International_Centre http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_International_Centre
    - rg 16y ago
      Microsoft's Graphics Business Unit (1987-1992) built out a long and thin building at 2460 Sand Hill Road, Menlo Park, in this way, using central hallways; every person had a private office with a door and an outside window looking out at the hills around Stanford. Core areas were used for conference rooms and labs.

wmf 16y ago

What else would you do if you have thousands of employees? You have to put them somewhere.

sliverstorm 16y ago
If you adopt sardine-style packaging, you might be able to keep them in a small office. Just think of how close everybody'd be!

mattwdelong 16y ago

I`m actually curious as to what the campus looks like myself (interior). I have been searching for images with no avail. If anyone finds anything, link me?

elptacek 16y ago
I used to work on this campus in 1997. It kinda reminded me of an apartment complex in that there is a large open areas surrounded by free-standing buildings. At the time, there was a dry cleaners drop off, at least one small restaurant and an exercise facility. There's also a trail that rings the entire campus. In the building I had access to, the outer walls were built out with small offices that would fit 1-4 people and the middle part of the buildings had reception desks and labs. Everything was taupe and tan with the medium purple Sun color in contrast. The offices have nice large windows looking over the parking lot and the marshes beyond. There was plenty of nice break space, and I remember being surprised to find a room designated for women to pump breastmilk. But then, there were a lot of women on that campus. ETA: if you click on the map link in the article and zoom in, you'll get a pretty good look. The building off to the left side of the picture that is most separate from the rest was the exercise facility. The building in the upper right is the one I worked in.
- portman 16y ago
  Did you feel like there wasn't enough outdoor space? Comparing this (via aerial imagery) to working on the Microsoft campus in the late 90s, it seems like Sun campus is mostly indoors, as opposed to the "college" feel of Microsoft or Google. I would think that Facebook would want to emulate Google's campuses more, with a larger number of smaller buildings to promote a more collegiate atmosphere. But this is all based on four 45-degree aerial shots, so I'm curious what your thoughts are on the place.
  - elptacek 16y ago
    Quite the opposite. I've never worked in another place where it was more inviting to be outside.
  - philwelch 16y ago
    It doesn't seem like Facebook has much choice, really. Even Google had to take over an existing campus (SGI) that fit their requirements. Can you imagine the expense of building a completely new campus in Silicon Valley? Apple's been planning to build a new campus for years. Even they had to buy an existing property (HP's old campus), and reportedly are planning to build an entirely new campus on the same land. As successful and rich as Facebook is, they aren't Apple-rich. They probably aren't even Apple-picky about what their new campus is like--not that they don't care, but it's hard to imagine anyone else having the same level of perfectionism as Apple.
- thwarted 16y ago
  I remember being surprised to find a room designated for women to pump breastmilk. But then, there were a lot of women on that campus. I believe that, in California, companies of a certain size need to provide a room for this independent of how many women the company employs. From http://www.ncsl.org/default.aspx?tabid=14389 http://www.ncsl.org/default.aspx?tabid=14389 : Cal. Labor Code § 1030 et seq. (2001) provides that employers need to allow a break and provide a room for a mother who desires to express milk in private. http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=94664316561+0+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=9466431...
gregholmberg 16y ago
The Sun Quentin buildings enclose a long, crescent-shaped central courtyard. http://www.flickr.com/photos/-miko-/1001185172/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/-miko-/1001185172/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/fallenpegasus/2979890601/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/fallenpegasus/2979890601/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/j3ss1c/2395178005/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/j3ss1c/2395178005/ Here is a series of shots showing the new interior. Looks like the nice private offices are history, in favor of open-plan. http://www.flickr.com/photos/nicksieger/3312863160/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/nicksieger/3312863160/ If you continue searching, you can cut out some clutter by using Sun's identifier for the two Menlo Park campuses: "MPK".

immad 16y ago

Why would a corporate campus be seen as an evil bad idea?

dirtae 16y ago
I don't think that the idea of a corporate campus is evil or bad, but I do think that the implementation of corporate campuses is often very bad. Most corporate campuses that I've visited rely on large squarish buildings, which means lots of interior office space with no windows. They also tend to be isolated from the surrounding area by huge parking lots, with limited walkability to nearby restaurants and shops. It should be possible to build a corporate campus that doesn't suffer from these problems, but I'm unable to think of an example.
- DougWebb 16y ago
  "Peopleware" describes a solution to this problem. The basic idea is to design office buildings like hotels, where every room has plenty of windows. The buildings have to be long and thin rather than blocky.
  - maigret 16y ago
    Yes... Or square with a courtyard in the middle.
  - pmjordan 16y ago
    The rounded triangular blocks of the Vienna International Centre (Vienna UN offices) are a curious architectual solution to this problem. Having been built in the 70s, they're not exactly pretty (and currently being cleared of asbestos), but they do provide a vast number of well-lit offices along with larger central areas. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_International_Centre http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_International_Centre
  - rg 16y ago
    Microsoft's Graphics Business Unit (1987-1992) built out a long and thin building at 2460 Sand Hill Road, Menlo Park, in this way, using central hallways; every person had a private office with a door and an outside window looking out at the hills around Stanford. Core areas were used for conference rooms and labs.