15 ms·

What I noticed is a lack of mention of installing elevated solar panels so grasses and other plants can grow under the solar panels where the shade reduces the

What I noticed is a lack of mention of installing elevated solar panels so grasses and other plants can grow under the solar panels where the shade reduces the impact of too strong a sunlight exposure.

matt9j 7y ago
I think this is a really interesting point, and am curious about how the shade from the panels will change the ecosystem underneath them. If the natural habitat is mostly low brush having soil that is fully shaded for a large fraction of the day would advantage different types of plants.
- looki 7y ago
  There has been some research on this: https://www.ise.fraunhofer.de/en/press-media/press-releases/2017/harvesting-the-sun-for-power-and-produce-agrophotovoltaics-increases-the-land-use-efficiency-by-over-60-percent.html https://www.ise.fraunhofer.de/en/press-media/press-releases/...
- londons_explore 7y ago
  I hypothesize that the lack of biomass in direct sunlight is mostly because the right seeds aren't yet planted there. Some cacti or other plants with waxy skin and deep roots would love the extra sunlight.
hedora 7y ago
They’re doing this to avoid irrigation. I suspect they haven’t thought about what this will do to the topsoil. Even ignoring the ecological catastrophe of destroying the topsoil, getting the dust it produces off those panels during the summer is going to be expensive. Planting native pollinator friendly stuff under the solar panels would address my concerns though.
- KirinDave 7y ago
  Are you under the impression farmland is not a massive source of dust? It's tilled and aerated soil populated by short-lived crops genetically engineered to spend as much of their energy on the edible part as possible. If you want a concern to hold, it's that this will probably increase pioneer grass spreading during the rainy season and then then the panels will all get melted in a wildfire. You don't need to plant anything to pollinator-friendly stuff on your land in California. It shows up with a vengeance.
  - hedora 7y ago
    If you don’t water California soil, it cracks and then turns to dust. eg: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=cracked+california+soil&iax=images&ia=images https://duckduckgo.com/?q=cracked+california+soil&iax=images... Also, if not controlled, Avena grass (the invasive species that turns the hills yellow during the summer) takes over, killing off anything that would support pollinators during the summer and fall.
    - KirinDave 7y ago
      The cracked soil is a feature of being a desert, and since the entire point of this is that it's unsustainable to irrigate a desert that far from a major waterway, there isn't much to be done in the long term about what species thrive. That's the wages of climate change.
      - hedora 7y ago
        This area didn’t start out as desert. It is some of the most fertile (remaining) land on earth. (Like the Sahara used to be.) It also currently, but unsustainably, produces a large fraction of all food on earth. Here’s an article from 2012 with some anecdotes if numbers aren’t your thing: https://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/14/magazine/californias-central-valley-land-of-a-billion-vegetables.html https://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/14/magazine/californias-cent... Here is a table of crops: https://republicans-naturalresources.house.gov/newsroom/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=368934 https://republicans-naturalresources.house.gov/newsroom/docu... (it doesn’t seem to include exports, so the numbers are low-balled) It is clearly being over-farmed, but the solution to that is crop rotation and letting the fields periodically go fallow. Blanketing it with solar panels is likely irreversible.
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago
  >getting the dust it produces off those panels during the summer is going to be expensive. We're talking like a couple minimum wage employees with leaf blowers and ladders. Sure it doesn't cost nothing but in the context of a commercial operation it's not thaaaat expensive.
Merrill 7y ago
Vegetation management is an ongoing task for solar farms. Herbicides can be used to keep weeds and vines from growing on the panels, and grasses should be mowed to keep down pollen which dusts the panels and reduces efficiency.
- jacobush 7y ago
  Goats
  - inflatableDodo 7y ago
    Remember to toughen up the panels. The goats will find a way to stand on top of them.
skybrian 7y ago
Maybe you're thinking of this story? "Solar panels increase grasses for sheep and cows by 90%" https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2018/11/12/solar-panel-increase-sheep-and-cow-grasses-by-90/ https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2018/11/12/solar-panel-increase-... "The paper suggests it was mostly due to significantly increased water efficiency – 328%. This efficiency allows semi-arid regions, with a wet winter, to store more water in the ground, allowing for a longer growth during the growing season."
WalterBright 7y ago
On my own lawn, the shaded areas stay green all summer, the full sun areas turn brown and into dust. I gave up watering the lawn years ago due to endless problems with the sprinklers. (Everything from them simply getting smashed by foot traffic to freeze damage to getting chewed to bits by coyotes.)
- swarnie_ 7y ago
  The idea of using water via a sprinkler system to keep a lawn green is such an alien concept to most people. Maybe California have a water problem for a reason?
  - RHSeeger 7y ago
    Its pretty common on the east coast too, from my experience.
    - swarnie_ 7y ago
      Maybe the whole country needs a rethink then? What's the specific importance of a green patch outside your home?
      - cblades 7y ago
        well, there's a lot of value in ground cover. Now, a conversation about moving to native plants instead of grass everywhere would probably be worth having.
      - bryanlarsen 7y ago
        I've heard radio announcements asking people to water their lawn to lower fire risk. Ottawa, Canada; no risk of running out of water here.
  - wes-k 7y ago
    Yes because of agriculture and because it’s a desert!
  - 7y ago

matt9j 7y ago

I think this is a really interesting point, and am curious about how the shade from the panels will change the ecosystem underneath them. If the natural habitat is mostly low brush having soil that is fully shaded for a large fraction of the day would advantage different types of plants.

looki 7y ago
There has been some research on this: https://www.ise.fraunhofer.de/en/press-media/press-releases/2017/harvesting-the-sun-for-power-and-produce-agrophotovoltaics-increases-the-land-use-efficiency-by-over-60-percent.html https://www.ise.fraunhofer.de/en/press-media/press-releases/...
londons_explore 7y ago
I hypothesize that the lack of biomass in direct sunlight is mostly because the right seeds aren't yet planted there. Some cacti or other plants with waxy skin and deep roots would love the extra sunlight.

hedora 7y ago

They’re doing this to avoid irrigation. I suspect they haven’t thought about what this will do to the topsoil. Even ignoring the ecological catastrophe of destroying the topsoil, getting the dust it produces off those panels during the summer is going to be expensive. Planting native pollinator friendly stuff under the solar panels would address my concerns though.

KirinDave 7y ago
Are you under the impression farmland is not a massive source of dust? It's tilled and aerated soil populated by short-lived crops genetically engineered to spend as much of their energy on the edible part as possible. If you want a concern to hold, it's that this will probably increase pioneer grass spreading during the rainy season and then then the panels will all get melted in a wildfire. You don't need to plant anything to pollinator-friendly stuff on your land in California. It shows up with a vengeance.
- hedora 7y ago
  If you don’t water California soil, it cracks and then turns to dust. eg: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=cracked+california+soil&iax=images&ia=images https://duckduckgo.com/?q=cracked+california+soil&iax=images... Also, if not controlled, Avena grass (the invasive species that turns the hills yellow during the summer) takes over, killing off anything that would support pollinators during the summer and fall.
  - KirinDave 7y ago
    The cracked soil is a feature of being a desert, and since the entire point of this is that it's unsustainable to irrigate a desert that far from a major waterway, there isn't much to be done in the long term about what species thrive. That's the wages of climate change.
    - hedora 7y ago
      This area didn’t start out as desert. It is some of the most fertile (remaining) land on earth. (Like the Sahara used to be.) It also currently, but unsustainably, produces a large fraction of all food on earth. Here’s an article from 2012 with some anecdotes if numbers aren’t your thing: https://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/14/magazine/californias-central-valley-land-of-a-billion-vegetables.html https://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/14/magazine/californias-cent... Here is a table of crops: https://republicans-naturalresources.house.gov/newsroom/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=368934 https://republicans-naturalresources.house.gov/newsroom/docu... (it doesn’t seem to include exports, so the numbers are low-balled) It is clearly being over-farmed, but the solution to that is crop rotation and letting the fields periodically go fallow. Blanketing it with solar panels is likely irreversible.
dsfyu404ed 7y ago
>getting the dust it produces off those panels during the summer is going to be expensive. We're talking like a couple minimum wage employees with leaf blowers and ladders. Sure it doesn't cost nothing but in the context of a commercial operation it's not thaaaat expensive.

Merrill 7y ago

Vegetation management is an ongoing task for solar farms. Herbicides can be used to keep weeds and vines from growing on the panels, and grasses should be mowed to keep down pollen which dusts the panels and reduces efficiency.

jacobush 7y ago
Goats
- inflatableDodo 7y ago
  Remember to toughen up the panels. The goats will find a way to stand on top of them.

skybrian 7y ago

Maybe you're thinking of this story? "Solar panels increase grasses for sheep and cows by 90%" https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2018/11/12/solar-panel-increase-sheep-and-cow-grasses-by-90/ https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2018/11/12/solar-panel-increase-... "The paper suggests it was mostly due to significantly increased water efficiency – 328%. This efficiency allows semi-arid regions, with a wet winter, to store more water in the ground, allowing for a longer growth during the growing season."

WalterBright 7y ago

On my own lawn, the shaded areas stay green all summer, the full sun areas turn brown and into dust. I gave up watering the lawn years ago due to endless problems with the sprinklers. (Everything from them simply getting smashed by foot traffic to freeze damage to getting chewed to bits by coyotes.)

swarnie_ 7y ago
The idea of using water via a sprinkler system to keep a lawn green is such an alien concept to most people. Maybe California have a water problem for a reason?
- RHSeeger 7y ago
  Its pretty common on the east coast too, from my experience.
  - swarnie_ 7y ago
    Maybe the whole country needs a rethink then? What's the specific importance of a green patch outside your home?
    - cblades 7y ago
      well, there's a lot of value in ground cover. Now, a conversation about moving to native plants instead of grass everywhere would probably be worth having.
    - bryanlarsen 7y ago
      I've heard radio announcements asking people to water their lawn to lower fire risk. Ottawa, Canada; no risk of running out of water here.
- wes-k 7y ago
  Yes because of agriculture and because it’s a desert!
- 7y ago