5 ms·

Not at all! For the last few decades, reductions due to efficiency gains has far outpaced increased demand. For example, we nowadays build much more well-isolat

Not at all! For the last few decades, reductions due to efficiency gains has far outpaced increased demand. For example, we nowadays build much more well-isolated homes which reduces the need for electrical heating in colder climates, and air conditioning in hotter ones. I don't think there is any Western country in which the per capita consumption of electricity has grown significantly over the last 20 years.

zaroth 7y ago
Consumer electricity is expensive. In some ways it's good because it drives the economics behind efficiency, but in other ways, it's unfortunate that energy is such a large part of the average American's monthly budget (electricity, oil, natural gas, and gasoline). Cheap energy is an extraordinary economic driver. Cheap green energy is a double win.
flukus 7y ago
Surely electricity prices have something to do with that, I hope in future energy becomes abundant enough that we can waste it without costing a fortune or destroying the environment. I want my toilet seat warmers and aircon, I want my PC to be as fast as possible and not throttled, I don't want to feel guilty about using a clothes dryer. On the bigger scale imagine what we could do with cheap water desalination and removing dams.
- mrpopo 7y ago
  The environment is being destroyed right here and right now. Are you willing to risk it being destroyed more because you want toilet seat warmers and a clothes dryer? Sorry if this makes you feel more guilty.
roenxi 7y ago
Do you have a source that controls for real electricity prices? Coal prices for example have risen faster than inflation over the last few decades (coal ~$30->$88 [0] vs inflation expectation $30->$42 by the US BLS calculator 2003-2019) and the renewables that have been bought online weren't exactly cheap. There is always going to be a sink for more power, because all else failing electricity can produce more aluminium products, and aluminium is one of those wonder materials that there will always be uses for. We know that energy efficiency can just as easily cause consumption to rise as to fall [1]. [0] https://www.statista.com/statistics/214236/thermal-coal-prices-since-2003/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/214236/thermal-coal-pric... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox
m4rtink 7y ago
Still, you can always only go so far with efficiency gains - they are important, but should not be depended on instead of looking for new cheap & clean energy sources. And there are also some technologies, that while very energy hungry, can help fix many of the pressing world problems (large scale desalination, plasma waste processing, large scale CO2 capture, various benefiting megaprojects, etc.).

zaroth 7y ago

Consumer electricity is expensive. In some ways it's good because it drives the economics behind efficiency, but in other ways, it's unfortunate that energy is such a large part of the average American's monthly budget (electricity, oil, natural gas, and gasoline). Cheap energy is an extraordinary economic driver. Cheap green energy is a double win.

flukus 7y ago

Surely electricity prices have something to do with that, I hope in future energy becomes abundant enough that we can waste it without costing a fortune or destroying the environment. I want my toilet seat warmers and aircon, I want my PC to be as fast as possible and not throttled, I don't want to feel guilty about using a clothes dryer. On the bigger scale imagine what we could do with cheap water desalination and removing dams.

mrpopo 7y ago
The environment is being destroyed right here and right now. Are you willing to risk it being destroyed more because you want toilet seat warmers and a clothes dryer? Sorry if this makes you feel more guilty.

roenxi 7y ago

Do you have a source that controls for real electricity prices? Coal prices for example have risen faster than inflation over the last few decades (coal ~$30->$88 [0] vs inflation expectation $30->$42 by the US BLS calculator 2003-2019) and the renewables that have been bought online weren't exactly cheap. There is always going to be a sink for more power, because all else failing electricity can produce more aluminium products, and aluminium is one of those wonder materials that there will always be uses for. We know that energy efficiency can just as easily cause consumption to rise as to fall [1]. [0] https://www.statista.com/statistics/214236/thermal-coal-prices-since-2003/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/214236/thermal-coal-pric... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox

m4rtink 7y ago

Still, you can always only go so far with efficiency gains - they are important, but should not be depended on instead of looking for new cheap & clean energy sources. And there are also some technologies, that while very energy hungry, can help fix many of the pressing world problems (large scale desalination, plasma waste processing, large scale CO2 capture, various benefiting megaprojects, etc.).