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Honestly, I have no problem with a database of public images showing/tracking people's public actions. It used to be in a small town you knew who was good and b

Honestly, I have no problem with a database of public images showing/tracking people's public actions. It used to be in a small town you knew who was good and bad by their actions. With the population explosion, the only way we have a practical means to return to that is with facial recognition databases.

acollins1331 7y ago
This guy is DEFINITELY not a cop.
kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
Pray your doppelgangers don't ever break the law.
- not_a_cop75 7y ago
  They have, and I went to court for it, and won. It's not easy, but stating that any system that can make mistakes is not worthwhile is frankly bad logic. Can police make mistakes today?
cheeze 7y ago
You may not. I don't want my government spying on me. What if I was gay and was seen leaving a gay club? Now what if I ended up in the Kingdom of Saud and that data was shared or leaked?
- imgabe 7y ago
  If you're gay, you should know the risks about going to Saudi Arabia or any place with similar laws and avoid going there. One does not usually "end up" in a different country unless they're kidnapped and at that point the homosexuality laws are really the least of your problems.
  - ilikehurdles 7y ago
    How do you avoid being born in a place like that?
    - imgabe 7y ago
      If you're gay and were born in Saudi Arabia, and managed to get to a point where you're photographed leaving a gay club in NYC, then don't go back to Saudi Arabia.
      - ilikehurdles 7y ago
        Governments change, as do treatments of different groups of people. Perhaps the government had no issue with your practicing of a particular religion or being an immigrant before some disaster, war, or nationalist wave changes things.
        imgabe 7y ago
        And anyone can come up with some contrived chain of events about how any particular technology might be misused. That's not a reason to dismiss it wholesale, otherwise we would never have any technology at all.
        SolaceQuantum 7y ago
        How is it contrived when it's happened again and again historically?
        imgabe 7y ago
        Really? Saudi Arabia has historically, again and again, used facial recognition data collected by the NYPD to hunt down people who went to gay clubs in NYC, who for some reason spontaneously "end up" in Saudi Arabia via some unspecified process they can't control?
- xwdv 7y ago
  First of all, there is a strict process in proving that someone is a homosexual in Saudi Arabia. It’s not as simple as “here’s some pictures of this guy leaving a gay club, execute him”. If it were that easy the system would be rife for abuse obviously, especially in an age where any image can be faked or taken out of context. Second, you can simply deny the images were even real, or that it was not you, and further increase the burden of proof required.
  - abugheratwork 7y ago
    Assuming everything you say is true ... your point is what? This hypothetical person would probably not be executed? Going through a trial for your own sexual orientation but being acquitted doesn't sound like a great time to me.
    - xwdv 7y ago
      It simply would not make it to trial, especially if you are a person of no significance.
maximente 7y ago
have you considered the obvious fallout from that? one example: bad actors use database of people's public actions to privately harass them (e.g. following them to work => ID employer => extort/blackmail) what is your solution to this outside of panopticon?
- DocTomoe 7y ago
  Mutually assured destruction. Everyone has something they do not want others to be aware of.
danso 7y ago
It used to be in a small town that your life was ruined by spurious rumors and salacious gossip.
- jdnenej 7y ago
  Not used to be. In many places today you will literally be murdered by the mob for being suspected to be a witch.
  - A2017U1 7y ago
    There's some horrendous stories of this happening in PNG. The police are present and try to stop the mob but they are outnumbered 100-to-1 by a group of villagers intent on murdering some poor innocent woman accused of being a witch and causing illness in the community. They stand by and watch as she is lynched.
beecat 7y ago
... And why exactly should we return to that? How is that progress?
hnaccy 7y ago
Sure, let's roll the beta out just for police officers, politicians, and prosecutors.
Balgair 7y ago
Well, victims of domestic violence sure have a problem with it! Though the stats are a bit murky and hard to parse, up to 1 in 4 women are victims of domestic violence [0], so it's not an edge case. [0] https://ncadv.org/statistics https://ncadv.org/statistics
chachachoney 7y ago
You make it sound like this is an attempt to return to a more desirable set of circumstances. We aren't talking about small towns here, we're talking about an urban metropolis. Relative anonymity is a feature, not a bug.

acollins1331 7y ago

This guy is DEFINITELY not a cop.

kevin_thibedeau 7y ago

Pray your doppelgangers don't ever break the law.

not_a_cop75 7y ago
They have, and I went to court for it, and won. It's not easy, but stating that any system that can make mistakes is not worthwhile is frankly bad logic. Can police make mistakes today?

cheeze 7y ago

You may not. I don't want my government spying on me. What if I was gay and was seen leaving a gay club? Now what if I ended up in the Kingdom of Saud and that data was shared or leaked?

imgabe 7y ago
If you're gay, you should know the risks about going to Saudi Arabia or any place with similar laws and avoid going there. One does not usually "end up" in a different country unless they're kidnapped and at that point the homosexuality laws are really the least of your problems.
- ilikehurdles 7y ago
  How do you avoid being born in a place like that?
  - imgabe 7y ago
    If you're gay and were born in Saudi Arabia, and managed to get to a point where you're photographed leaving a gay club in NYC, then don't go back to Saudi Arabia.
    - ilikehurdles 7y ago
      Governments change, as do treatments of different groups of people. Perhaps the government had no issue with your practicing of a particular religion or being an immigrant before some disaster, war, or nationalist wave changes things.
      - imgabe 7y ago
        And anyone can come up with some contrived chain of events about how any particular technology might be misused. That's not a reason to dismiss it wholesale, otherwise we would never have any technology at all.
        SolaceQuantum 7y ago
        How is it contrived when it's happened again and again historically?
        imgabe 7y ago
        Really? Saudi Arabia has historically, again and again, used facial recognition data collected by the NYPD to hunt down people who went to gay clubs in NYC, who for some reason spontaneously "end up" in Saudi Arabia via some unspecified process they can't control?
xwdv 7y ago
First of all, there is a strict process in proving that someone is a homosexual in Saudi Arabia. It’s not as simple as “here’s some pictures of this guy leaving a gay club, execute him”. If it were that easy the system would be rife for abuse obviously, especially in an age where any image can be faked or taken out of context. Second, you can simply deny the images were even real, or that it was not you, and further increase the burden of proof required.
- abugheratwork 7y ago
  Assuming everything you say is true ... your point is what? This hypothetical person would probably not be executed? Going through a trial for your own sexual orientation but being acquitted doesn't sound like a great time to me.
  - xwdv 7y ago
    It simply would not make it to trial, especially if you are a person of no significance.

maximente 7y ago

have you considered the obvious fallout from that? one example: bad actors use database of people's public actions to privately harass them (e.g. following them to work => ID employer => extort/blackmail) what is your solution to this outside of panopticon?

DocTomoe 7y ago
Mutually assured destruction. Everyone has something they do not want others to be aware of.

danso 7y ago

It used to be in a small town that your life was ruined by spurious rumors and salacious gossip.

jdnenej 7y ago
Not used to be. In many places today you will literally be murdered by the mob for being suspected to be a witch.
- A2017U1 7y ago
  There's some horrendous stories of this happening in PNG. The police are present and try to stop the mob but they are outnumbered 100-to-1 by a group of villagers intent on murdering some poor innocent woman accused of being a witch and causing illness in the community. They stand by and watch as she is lynched.

beecat 7y ago

... And why exactly should we return to that? How is that progress?

hnaccy 7y ago

Sure, let's roll the beta out just for police officers, politicians, and prosecutors.

Balgair 7y ago

Well, victims of domestic violence sure have a problem with it! Though the stats are a bit murky and hard to parse, up to 1 in 4 women are victims of domestic violence [0], so it's not an edge case. [0] https://ncadv.org/statistics https://ncadv.org/statistics

chachachoney 7y ago

You make it sound like this is an attempt to return to a more desirable set of circumstances. We aren't talking about small towns here, we're talking about an urban metropolis. Relative anonymity is a feature, not a bug.