4 ms·

Would be interesting to see what causes high estrogen in the studied women. My guess would be obesity, and potentially plant-based diet high in soy products.

by amasad 7y ago

Inthenameofmine 7y ago
I think the soy idea has been debunked for some time now. The main external estrogen source is milk and to some extend meat products.
- amasad 7y ago
  Fake news! Soy has orders of magnitude more estrogen than animal products, even the hormone-implanted ones. > The 1.9 nanograms of estrogen in implanted beef is also minuscule compared to 225 nanograms of estrogen in potatoes, 340 nanograms of estrogen in peas, 520 nanograms of estrogen in ice cream, 2,000 nanograms of estrogen in cabbage, 11,250 nanograms of estrogen in soy milk, and 170,000 nanograms of estrogen in soybean oil… all based on a 3 ounce serving size. One birth control pill contains 35,000 nanograms of estrogen. https://newsroom.unl.edu/announce/beef/2846/15997 https://newsroom.unl.edu/announce/beef/2846/15997
  - citruscomputing 7y ago
    phytoestrogen != estrogen If this were true, all the pre-transition trans women I know would be eating a LOT more soy. Unfortunately, it's not, and can even have the opposite effect, by binding to receptors that estrogen would, preventing it from acting normally.
    - arbitrage 7y ago
      The idea of consuming phytoestrogen in pre-HRT transwomen is pretty widespread, in my experience. Unsure where the idea came from, but it is definitely "in the air". > and can even have the opposite effect This part gets omitted a distressing amount of the time, unfortunately.
  - mftrhu 7y ago
    Not quite, because while you are talking about estrogen in beef and birth control pills (Diane 35, presumably), you are talking about phytoestrogens in soy milk & co, and specifically isoflavones. Phytoestrogens have a similar structure to estrogen, and can thus bind to the estrogen receptors, but they have only a weak estrogenic effect (the opposite might actually happen). The effect of isoflavones, at least, has been studied [1], finding "no significant effect" on "T, SHBG, free T, or FAI" - this despite the trials featuring subjects whose "soy protein and isoflavone intake greatly exceeded typical dietary Japanese intake", which was said to range from "25 to 50 mg" in Japanese adults. What effect isoflavones have might be debated, but that comparison remains apples to oranges. A daily dose of estrogen greater than 25 to 50 mg would definitely have an effect. Even a tenth of that would have a very noticeable effect. It doesn't, so just saying "170'000 ng per serving" tells us nothing, not when the comparison includes birth control pills. Hell, that comparison would even remain apples to orange if you just compared animal estrogens, or those estrogens that can be found in pill form. Diane 35 contains ethinylestradiol, which is much more potent than conjugated estrogens (Premarin & co) or micronized estradiol (Estrace): while 95% of the estrogen you ingest is going to be inactivated, ethinylestradiol bypasses most of that. Isoflavones do not, they also undergo first-pass metabolism, so the comparison is doubly flawed. [1] https://doi.org/10.1016%2Fj.fertnstert.2009.04.038 https://doi.org/10.1016%2Fj.fertnstert.2009.04.038
YinglingLight 7y ago
>In Florida, a wildlife biologist wonders why alligator eggs are failing to hatch, and why so many male alligators have abnormally small phalluses. >In Denmark, an endocrinologist finds that sperm counts in men have fallen drastically worldwide during the past five decades while the number of testicular cancers has tripled. >In Boston, a cell biologist can't figure out why her experiments with breast cancer cells have suddenly stopped working. >These disparate observations may seem unrelated, but a growing number of researchers suspect they are part of an emerging global problem. Scientists know that certain industrial compounds, pesticides and plastics that mimic the female hormone estrogen are making their way into food and water supplies. The concern is that these estrogen-like pollutants may be causing turmoil in human and animal reproductive systems.
dsalso 7y ago
Just like breast cancer

Would be interesting to see what causes high estrogen in the studied women. My guess would be obesity, and potentially plant-based diet high in soy products.

by amasad 7y ago

Would be interesting to see what causes high estrogen in the studied women. My guess would be obesity, and potentially plant-based diet high in soy products.

Inthenameofmine 7y ago

I think the soy idea has been debunked for some time now. The main external estrogen source is milk and to some extend meat products.

amasad 7y ago
Fake news! Soy has orders of magnitude more estrogen than animal products, even the hormone-implanted ones. > The 1.9 nanograms of estrogen in implanted beef is also minuscule compared to 225 nanograms of estrogen in potatoes, 340 nanograms of estrogen in peas, 520 nanograms of estrogen in ice cream, 2,000 nanograms of estrogen in cabbage, 11,250 nanograms of estrogen in soy milk, and 170,000 nanograms of estrogen in soybean oil… all based on a 3 ounce serving size. One birth control pill contains 35,000 nanograms of estrogen. https://newsroom.unl.edu/announce/beef/2846/15997 https://newsroom.unl.edu/announce/beef/2846/15997
- citruscomputing 7y ago
  phytoestrogen != estrogen If this were true, all the pre-transition trans women I know would be eating a LOT more soy. Unfortunately, it's not, and can even have the opposite effect, by binding to receptors that estrogen would, preventing it from acting normally.
  - arbitrage 7y ago
    The idea of consuming phytoestrogen in pre-HRT transwomen is pretty widespread, in my experience. Unsure where the idea came from, but it is definitely "in the air". > and can even have the opposite effect This part gets omitted a distressing amount of the time, unfortunately.
- mftrhu 7y ago
  Not quite, because while you are talking about estrogen in beef and birth control pills (Diane 35, presumably), you are talking about phytoestrogens in soy milk & co, and specifically isoflavones. Phytoestrogens have a similar structure to estrogen, and can thus bind to the estrogen receptors, but they have only a weak estrogenic effect (the opposite might actually happen). The effect of isoflavones, at least, has been studied [1], finding "no significant effect" on "T, SHBG, free T, or FAI" - this despite the trials featuring subjects whose "soy protein and isoflavone intake greatly exceeded typical dietary Japanese intake", which was said to range from "25 to 50 mg" in Japanese adults. What effect isoflavones have might be debated, but that comparison remains apples to oranges. A daily dose of estrogen greater than 25 to 50 mg would definitely have an effect. Even a tenth of that would have a very noticeable effect. It doesn't, so just saying "170'000 ng per serving" tells us nothing, not when the comparison includes birth control pills. Hell, that comparison would even remain apples to orange if you just compared animal estrogens, or those estrogens that can be found in pill form. Diane 35 contains ethinylestradiol, which is much more potent than conjugated estrogens (Premarin & co) or micronized estradiol (Estrace): while 95% of the estrogen you ingest is going to be inactivated, ethinylestradiol bypasses most of that. Isoflavones do not, they also undergo first-pass metabolism, so the comparison is doubly flawed. [1] https://doi.org/10.1016%2Fj.fertnstert.2009.04.038 https://doi.org/10.1016%2Fj.fertnstert.2009.04.038

YinglingLight 7y ago

>In Florida, a wildlife biologist wonders why alligator eggs are failing to hatch, and why so many male alligators have abnormally small phalluses. >In Denmark, an endocrinologist finds that sperm counts in men have fallen drastically worldwide during the past five decades while the number of testicular cancers has tripled. >In Boston, a cell biologist can't figure out why her experiments with breast cancer cells have suddenly stopped working. >These disparate observations may seem unrelated, but a growing number of researchers suspect they are part of an emerging global problem. Scientists know that certain industrial compounds, pesticides and plastics that mimic the female hormone estrogen are making their way into food and water supplies. The concern is that these estrogen-like pollutants may be causing turmoil in human and animal reproductive systems.

dsalso 7y ago

Just like breast cancer